[sugar] Squeak / Etoys RPMs

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

Ivan Krsti? wrote:
> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>   
>> You know what's my real worry? I'm worried that when the storage system
>> will be spec'd out (or even worst implemented) we will find out it's not
>> what we need to implement the user experience design. And the reason I'm
>> really worried is that I *care* about it because I'm sure you guys are
>> building a great piece of software.
>>     
>
> I wanted to release specs for the storage system a few weeks ago, but
> this got sidetracked because of work on security, the docformat, and
> infrastructure.
>
> I'm going to try very hard to release the spec before next week. That
> said, I want to caution against the seemingly growing trend to consider
> *everything* a part of the user experience design. I can see the appeal
> in it, but it's simply misguided and incorrect. We're building a
> software stack. As with any other stack, it has a top and a bottom.
> Sugar is the top, and while many of the underlying levels must thus be
> designed with user experience as the primary concern, the fact is that
> many of the bottom layers simply don't.
>   

The connection with the lower layers of the stack is obviously weaker. 
Despite that a lot of the improvements on the top layer requires changes 
down in the stack.

> The kernel is not designed with regard to user experience.

Not true. Project Utopia is just one of the possible examples.
http://kerneltrap.org/node/3450

I'm always amazed to watch David Zeuthen "fighting" the kernel hackers ;)

>  Neither is
> TCP/IP. The document store is a general, relatively low-level interface
> whose actual operation is largely defined by how it's used;

This is a definition that could equally apply to filesystems. I don't 
think you ignore the influence files, directories, user permissions etc 
have on the user experience on a traditional desktop, do you?

>  just as you
> don't think to go and implement a new NAND flash filesystem with user
> experience in mind (what does that even mean?), so it's the case with
> the docstore.
>   

No, probably not a new NAND filesystem. But very possibly a storage 
system that allows me to store versioned data for example? :)

> In terms of my expectations, I don't think we'll have anything more than
> the wiki/eBook reader using the store for B-test.

*When* we will see the plans for the wiki/Ebook reader? I hate to ask 
about this again but... I think it would help turning this discussion in 
a productive one.

I'm not asking you to design every single part of the storage system 
with user experience in mind, but please at least keep an eye on it.

The whole thread clearly show the disconnection between the design team 
thinking and what you and Ian have in mind. That is something that need 
fixing independently from the personal engineering believes. And that's 
the only reason I got involved in the thread.

Marco