[SoaS] [IAEP] SoaS installation frustrations

[Peter Robinson]

On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Frederick Grose <fgrose at sugarlabs.org> wrote:
> See the posting below with inline suggestions.  The posting was to the IAEP
> mailing list for the general Sugar audience.  I've copied the discussion
> here to the SoaS list for technical followup.  Perhaps we could interest
> some Google Code-In or GSOC applicants to innovate on the installation
> issues.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
> Date: Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 12:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 107, Issue 15
> To: iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org
>
>
> Consider an potential adopter who wants to try out Sugar. As Caryl knows
> from Scale, an adopter wants to know:
>
> 1 - What are the capabilities of Sugar, what are its strengths, who is using
> it, are there success stories, testimonials from users?
> 2 - How is it supported? If I were to deploy it and needed help, is it
> available?
> 3 - How can I install it on my PC to try it out?
>
> Going to the Sugarlabs website, the first screen features: Activities, Wiki,
> Social Help. The next statement describes Sugar as a collection of tools.
> Being persistent, if you scroll down several screens, you get to a block:
> Get Sugar featuring SOAS and Gnu/Linux.

The SoaS site it much better:
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas/

> For Sugar on a Stick, I am directed to another page. It starts out well -
> how to make a stick with Windows (but 7). The instructions say to download
> 650MB and burn a CD. At this point the instructions become incoherent. They
> say to mount a 2GB or more stick and then boot from the CD and start running
> Sugar from it using the Terminal activity and su.

Fedora has a Windows/MacOS/Linux graphical tool to write USB sticks
and that is what should be used IMO.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB

> Then I am told that a change in Fedora 24 (the adopter is saying 'what's
> that?') requires the use of the command:
>
> sudo dnf install livecd-tools
>
> No potential adopter would persist even to this point.
>
>>> We should go back to including the livecd-tools package in SoaS and we
>>> should also copy the livecd-iso-to-disk script to the /LiveOS/ folder as was
>>> previously standard in Fedora, because installing SoaS with persistent
>>> storage is essential for the project goal of having a resumable Sugar
>>> environment in your pocket.
>
> This is something Peter Robinson, our SoaS packager, can accomplish or
> advise us on.

I need help if SoaS is to survive. I really don't have the time to maintain it.

That said I think most of the instructions on the web site are garbage.

> The other panel claims Sugar is available on most Gnu/Linux distributions.
> The accompanying instructions from the links on this panel are even more
> intimidating and provide evidence of lack of support for Sugar.
>
> In fact, I believe that Ubuntu 16.04 enables yum install of Sugar 0.110.
> This should be featured.

Why confuse users with a plethora of distributions? You go on about
making it easier and less confusing where all that does it adds to the
confusion.

> Like Pixel, I would like to see a current Sugar image available for download
> which can be transferred to a usb stick by a single dd command. This stick
> would operate as SOAS but also support installation in an available block of
> hard drive on any amd_64 machine.
>
>>> This is currently available, but not featured in our instructions as such
>>> an installation lacks persistence of user/learner Activities between boots.
>>> However, it is the easiest way to demonstrate a live SoaS system.
>>> Instructions should be updated.
>
> A second image ideally would be installable as a Window application with a
> supported Windows installer (like wubi did). Finally, there should be a
> Debian image which can be copied to an SD card and booted by a Raspberry Pi
> 3 (and possibly 2).

We product SoaS on Fedora for the Raspberry Pi 2 and 3 already (plus
around 200 other cheap ARM devices). Why do you need a Debian image
where you could use the Fedora SoaS and ensure a consistent experience
across all platforms.

> Finally, our hypothetical adopter should find this 'get Sugar' information
> on the main screen, not down six screens.

Get someone to actually write quality documentation for doing so.

> Tony
>
> On 02/15/2017 11:20 PM, iaep-request at lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:15:05 +0000
> From: Caryl Bigenho <cbigenho at hotmail.com>
> To: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>
> Cc: IAEP SugarLabs <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] pixel
> Message-ID:
> <CY4PR19MB1061668D2FC5EEF8CBBCD2CDCC5B0 at CY4PR19MB1061.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> +1 for Tony's comment!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Bert Freudenberg
> <bert at freudenbergs.de<mailto:bert at freudenbergs.de>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:35 AM, Tony Anderson
> <tony_anderson at usa.net<mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net>> wrote:
> This is what I hoped Sugarlabs would do:
>
> https://opensource.com/article/17/1/try-raspberry-pis-pixel-os-your-pc
>
> Tony
>
> Isn't that exactly what SoaS does?
>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation
>
> - Bert -
>
> ______________________________________________
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> For those interested alleviating these frustrations, the following links to
> previous efforts provide some background:
>
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Resources
>
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Goals
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO
>
>    --Fred
>
>