[SoaS] generate list of Spins of Sugar

[Mel Chua]

 > I really don't think this is helpful right now I'm afraid.

Imo, it's okay if it isn't helpful to everyone; it helps a few (myself 
included) keep better track of information. What I'm concerned about is 
whether it's *harmful* to anyone.

Sean, I respect you tremendously, and defer to your *far* greater 
knowledge of Marketing-fu on basically everything, especially SL stuff. 
I don't want to pick a fight with you on this (or on anything) - I know 
it's frustrating to have so many of these boundary-setting 
meta-conversations one right after another; it's a lot of time and a lot 
of churn and very little immediately apparent Actual Stuff Getting Done 
results.

I say this because I'm about to push back, and I want to be clear about 
where the pushback is coming from - it's not coming from me disagreeing 
with you about Marketing, it's coming from me going "I think, 
community-wise, this is what we need to do," and not being able to see 
as clearly as you do how it impacts our efforts marketing-wise.

 > And I don't want to get into wikipedia-style edit/unedit/edit/unedit.

Nor do I. Right now, though, we're having the mailing list equivalent of 
post-counterpost-countercounterpost-countercountercounterpost - which I 
think we've all had enough  What I'm trying to do is break the deadlock 
by nudging us towards consensus in an accelerated (and therefore likely 
to be uncomfortable) way.

 > I'm not talking about "someone's" interest, I'm talking about Sugar
 > Labs' interest.

Sugar Labs is made of lots and lots of individual someones; to some 
degree, if it's in an individual SL communty members' interest, it's in 
SL's interest. When individual interests collide (as they seem to be 
doing here), then we talk, and figure out a way to work things out 
between those individuals (as we are doing here). It's all made of 
"someones" - I can't speak for the interest of Sugar Labs, I can only 
speak for my own interests as a member of Sugar Labs.

 > What's the point please?

Something I've learned from open source culture: When things take more 
effort to discuss than to do *and* to revert if needed, just do them. Or 
rather, "discuss by doing."

It took me... *looks up timestamps* exactly 10 minutes to make those 
edits to the wiki. It would take far less than that amount of time to 
undo what I just did. The total sum of all the time we've spent writing 
and reading emails on this topic is far, far more than 20 minutes. Ergo, 
"ask forgiveness, not permission." ;)

This does operate under the assumption that the edits I made benefit at 
least one person (me, because we can hypothetically stop talking about 
it) and don't harm anybody else - though I seem to have mis-guessed 
this, since this is causing you concern. I'm sorry about that, and would 
like to hear what I can do to fix things. I'm happy to pop on IRC early 
tomorrow morning my time, if you'd like to talk about this and find it 
easier to do that than continuing a mailing list thread (we can post 
logs to this thread).

Culture-matching and norm-building are *tough.* They're messy. They take 
a long time. I promise it will be worth it when this overhead eventually 
goes down.

--Mel