[SoaS] SoaS Blueberry Marketing Collateral

[Douglas McClendon]

Sean DALY wrote:
> Thanks Douglas yes i saw that but what I'm saying is people need to be
> warned before they start up a tool on a dcomputer. It's a
> communications issue.

Yes, I think quite simply, zyx-liveinstaller should be framed entirely 
as an optional benefit to SoaS, and not a core piece.  I.e. the majority 
of users of blueberry will never launch it, or need to care that it exists.


> 
> I'm still not clear what zyx-liveinstaller does to a Windows or OSX
> hard disk... 

Are you familiar with the process of booting a fedora or ubuntu livecd, 
and then installing to system disk?  It's that.  But much simpler with 
fewer options (because it is still relatively immature).  I.e. with the 
fedora LiveCD installer, it takes the root filesystem that the LiveOS is 
using (i.e. from cdrom + ram (or persistent usb) overlay) and copies it 
to a user specified partition.  If that partition had their windows 
filesystem, their windows filesystem is now gone.  It also overwrites 
the bootloader.  zyx-liveinstaller does not yet go to lengths to set up 
a dual boot configuration, though that can be added later by editing a 
configfile.


my concern is modifying a core marketing promise of Sugar
> on a Stick, which is "doesn't touch the hard drive of the computer"
> (cf. 2 previous SoaS press releases).

Then ensure marketing communications never erroneously indicate that 
zyx-liveinstaller is something that people need to use.  Its just an 
option for those people who would like its functionality.


  If the tool only works on
> GNU/Linux hard disk installs,

Again, I think you don't quite grok how a traditional fedora/ubuntu 
installation from LiveCD works.  There is no dependence or relation to 
another operating system, other than "the sugar on a stick operating 
system"  (presently a distribution of fedora-12 packages and customizations)


  we can deal with that as a "special
> feature for GNU/Linux", and our promise holds for Windows and OSX
> machines. If however there is risk to the data of those computers, we
> will need to weigh the change of our promise with the benefits of the
> tool, and its readiness.
> 
> Doing a live install, loading a stick from a stick are really cool
> tools for spreading Sugar. But every indication is that most computer
> users consider an OS upgrade or install to be very risky for data
> (it's a factor in GNU/Linux market share penetration issues), which is
> why addressing this fear is one of the core promises.

This all makes sense.  And isn't threatened at all by the _option_ that 
zyx-liveinstaller gives to users of SoaS.  But if miscommunicated as a 
key aspect of typical SoaS use, then yes, that would be bad.

-dmc

> 
> thanks
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Douglas McClendon
> <dmc.sugar at filteredperception.org> wrote:
>> Sean DALY wrote:
>>> ok thanks for that Sebastian, so it creates a partition on a hard disk
>>> with Windows or OSX already installled? That's quite a risky operation
>>> for any nongeek teacher or parent to do. We need to warn them before
>>> they click on anything, in our doc. And add a phrase about how backup
>>> can be done to an external disk.
>> If you zoom in on the pdf you can see how the very first words
>> zyx-liveinstaller presents to the user is currently a very explicit warning,
>> suggesting backups, noting alpha status.  Then, after the several clicks of
>> choosing destination partitions, another page of loud warnings and optional
>> cancel is presented to the user (before any disk write is done).
>>
>> For the full tour of screenshots and user experience, start looking here-
>>
>> http://filteredperception.org/smiley/stuff/gallery/zyxrli/f11-zli-ss-15.html
>>
>> It doesn't create any partitions, but does provide a button to launch the
>> gparted partitioner so that the user can do that.
>>
>> This is functionally equivalent to the LiveCD/USB installers that fedora and
>> ubuntu (and other) users are very familiar with.  I'd say for this release,
>> it is primarily a tool for users already familiar with that kind of
>> installation process.
>>
>> I would expect that 6 months down the road, the warnings can be softened, as
>> more documentation is created elsewhere, and people are less confused about
>> it because the feature/process has been noted in various reviews.
>>
>> -dmc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> The install barrier is our greatest technical obstacle to Sugar
>>> adoption. Sugar on a Stick sidesteps that, but what makes non-techies
>>> willing to try it is our promise of no risk to the existing hard drive
>>> installation. If we introduce risk, that changes our message, which
>>> could work, but will require warnings, backup advice and probably a
>>> scary disclaimer ("use this software at your own risk, Sugar Labs
>>> accepts no responsibility for data loss...")
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Sebastian Dziallas <sebastian at when.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Sean DALY wrote:
>>>>> OK Douglas please bear with me so that's for installing on additional
>>>>> blank media (e.g. second USB stick)? No risk to whatever's installed
>>>>> on the host computer's hard drive?
>>>> The use case is exactly like I described it: "install Sugar to a
>>>> computer's
>>>> hard disk". I'm planning to write more concrete instructions for that on
>>>> a
>>>> separate doc, but I could really use a hand and plan to get back to
>>>> readying
>>>> the release, soon.
>>>>
>>>> For replicating to a second USB key, the recommended way is (tip of the
>>>> hat
>>>> to Dave Bauer) something like: sudo livecd-iso-to-disk --overlay-size-mb
>>>> xxx
>>>> /dev/sr0 /dev/sdYZ
>>>>
>>>>> Put another way, in a typical classroom case (PC with Windows or Mac
>>>>> with OSX) what's the benefit? We need to communicate that to teachers
>>>>> and parents
>>>> It's basically like: "You used Sugar on a Stick and want to put it on
>>>> your
>>>> hard disk while keeping all the changes you made already? Cool!"
>>>>
>>>> The procedure then is: Open a terminal and type a command. Launch the
>>>> partitioner through the interface and create a partition layout (big fat
>>>> warning should appear). Walk through the rest of the installer by
>>>> selecting
>>>> your appropriate partitions. Wait. Once it's done, unplug your USB key
>>>> and
>>>> that's it. No need to reboot. You're already using your installed system.
>>>> After rebooting, everything should work fine, too (tip of the hat to
>>>> Douglas
>>>> McClendon for this cool technology).
>>>>
>>>> It will also somewhat work in schools, but from what I recall, we agreed
>>>> not
>>>> market Blueberry aggressively as entirely deployment ready.
>>>>
>>>> --Sebastian
>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Sean
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Douglas McClendon
>>>>> <dmc.sugar at filteredperception.org>  wrote:
>>>>>> Sean DALY wrote:
>>>>>>> OK Sebastian this is a great start but they need some work:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * zyx-liveinstaller: AFAIK only for GNU/Linux systems? we need to say
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> zyx-liveinstaller is a program that runs from a booted soas, and
>>>>>> installs
>>>>>> the running soas OS to disk/partition (in traditional 'non-live'
>>>>>> fashion).
>>>>>>  No relation or dependence on any other OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though installation to loopback file on an existing linux or windows
>>>>>> filesystem (instead of a dedicated partition or disk) is a
>>>>>> straightforward
>>>>>> enhancement longterm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -dmc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>