<div dir="ltr"><div>Not sure what you are referring to. Personally I feel like Sean has already justified his positions in a convincing way. I'm simply trying to come up with a set of concrete development goals which are realistically achievable. </div>There has been an years long disconnect between marketing and development. Closing that gap requires both parties to listen to each other, something which I feel has been happening in the last few days threads. </div><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On 8 November 2013 23:35, David Farning <<a href="mailto:dfarning@activitycentral.com" target="_blank">dfarning@activitycentral.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">An observation, from the outside, about marketing discussions. Several times over the last couple of days a number of marketing related posts have started, "I think we should...." Another, possibly more productive approach, might be to engage Sean, the marketing expert, in a discussion about why he thinks the way he does:) The premise is to build on each other's strengths which minimize the effects of individuals weakness. <div><div class="h5"> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Sean DALY <<a href="mailto:sdaly.be@gmail.com">sdaly.be@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > Daniel - you mean the main download page [1], right? Not the VirtualBox page > [2]? > > These and other wiki pages are indeed long and complex. We could break those > out into a dozen subpages to keep each one manageable. This problem was > meant to be solved by the new website template designed to replace the > static main site. > > I believe Bernie has a stat tool for pages including the static main site, i > remember seeing a report where traffic was like a thousand times more than > usual after one of our press releases in the past. > > Conversion rate will both improve and remain very marginal as we streamline > the existing structure since we haven't had press coverage for some time. > I'm all for measuring, the number can only go up. However, without even > measuring anything, there can be no doubt that every extra click will cost > us downloads when we get press coverage rolling again. > > The best way to do it is to propose a default pair of pancake buttons > (SoaS/VM) based on the visitor's OS and language, and hide the complex lists > under an "other systems and languages" link. Adobe (Flash, Reader) and OOo > do it like this. > > VirtualBox: I believe the installer autoconfigures itself for language > (around 20 langs) after first screen in English, but we need to know if our > VMs could autoconfigure for lang/keyb and if so, how much work that is, I > imagine the alternative being a matrix of prebuilt machines by language (for > sure that will be work). The learning curve and resources required is why I > want to reach out to Oracle. > > For SoaS, I believe it has always been default US-en lang/keyb, we'd have to > ask Peter if a reasonably simple solution for multiple languages is > available - ideally, a language setup screen when first run. > > Sean > > 1. <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar</a> > 2. <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox</a> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Daniel Narvaez <<a href="mailto:dwnarvaez@gmail.com">dwnarvaez@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> >> Of course I agree with you that less barriers the better but I think we >> need to pick our battles. With current state of the downloads page I'd >> expect the conversion rate to near the 0%. It takes a *lot* of extra clicks >> to achieve the same. >> >> I propose that we >> >> * Rewrite the downloads page offering *simple* instruction only for Soas >> and Virtualbox. >> * Keep the current page somewhere on the wiki, prominently linked, it's >> fine for techies. >> * Start measuring conversion rate. I suspect we don't have a way to count >> the number of users that managed to reach the Sugar home. But measuring >> completed downloads would be a start. >> * Gradually get rid of as many barriers as possible and see how the rate >> is affected. >> >> >> On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: >>> >>> Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra >>> hurdles for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL >>> extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't >>> care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented >>> axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every >>> additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases. >>> With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of >>> interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of >>> the downloads. >>> >>> It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most >>> resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in >>> mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential >>> conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over >>> 10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be >>> gating the download in a contact form. >>> >>> My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers >>> to try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> [1] >>> <a href="http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry#" target="_blank">http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry#</a> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez <<a href="mailto:dwnarvaez@gmail.com">dwnarvaez@gmail.com</a>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but >>>> it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance >>>> wise. >>>> >>>> From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's >>>> just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on >>>> a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really >>>> sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is >>>>> multi-platform (& what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac) >>>>> >>>>> The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free >>>>> redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single >>>>> installer, ideal for our needs. >>>>> >>>>> In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing >>>>> partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> 1. <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox</a> >>>>> 2. <a href="https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox" target="_blank">https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox</a> >>>>> 2. <a href="https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL" target="_blank">https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard <<a href="mailto:gonzalo@laptop.org">gonzalo@laptop.org</a>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gonzalo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez <<a href="mailto:dwnarvaez@gmail.com">dwnarvaez@gmail.com</a>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need >>>>>>>> to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we >>>>>>>> need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and >>>>>>>> journalists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can think of a couple of approaches >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of >>>>>>> those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with >>>>>>> SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. >>>>>>> Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process >>>>>>> would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Install virtualbox >>>>>>> 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up >>>>>>> the appliance). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete, >>>>>>> realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for >>>>>>> 3.102. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Daniel Narvaez >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Marketing@lists.sugarlabs.org">Marketing@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel Narvaez >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel Narvaez >> > > </div></div>> _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > <a href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> > <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a> > -- David Farning Activity Central: <a href="http://www.activitycentral.com" target="_blank">http://www.activitycentral.com</a> </blockquote></div> -- Daniel Narvaez </div>