Fw: Feedback re static frontend site

[Sean DALY]

last couple of comments inline, thanks!


On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt
<christianmarc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Comments inline.
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Sean DALY <sdaly.be at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Many thanks Christian, I like this better, I think it's more impactful.
>>
>> Here is a raft of more suggestions for the homepage suggestion box ;-)
>>
>> I will send a separate mail for the other sections, I have some
>> hopefully constructive suggestions for those too including copy.
>>
>> Marketing listers, speak up with suggestions!
>>
>>
>> ********** homepage **********
>>
>> * If we could add an edit to the homepage? -> "Available in X
>> languages, " like so:
>> "Sugar is the core component of a worldwide effort to provide every
>> child with equal opportunity for a quality education. Available in X
>> languages, Sugar is used every school day by almost one-million
>> children in more than forty countries."
>> Sugar's availability in & adaptability to local languages (including
>> "exotic" ones) is a key benefit and differentiator. (though I'm afraid
>> I don't know the actual value of X ;-)
>
>
> Added!
>
>>
>>
>> * I do feel that a very concise "motto" would communicate more
>> effectively our mission for children. Some text under the logo won't
>> detract... *if* the logo is larger and the motto reinforces the logo.
>> Idea: "Learning software for children." could be colored with the
>> first three words in grey and "children." in the matching "sugar"
>> color... suggesting very clearly the association between Sugar and
>> children (and, at the same time, "Labs" and "learning software"). Live
>> text for the motto would probably be better (& surely faster) than
>> logo image text... although I very much like the sans serif font. What
>> is the font by the way, VAG Rounded Light? MGOpen is an available
>> close-equivalent free font but has an even lighter stroke I think.
>>
>
> Sean, while I like the notion of the slogan, I hesitate to have it
> consistently associated with the logo since I think it diminishes the
> impact of the mark. The logo is designed to have generous whitespace
> surrounding it. (I tried your suggestion, only to confirm my initial
> expectation). But: I added the slogan to both the browser title on
> every page, and also to the footer. This way, it still feels very
> visible/relevant, while not constantly calling attention to itself
> underneath the logo.
>
> The font is indeed VAG Rounded Light! I'll look into MGOpen, it would
> be great if we also had an opensource equivalent to draw from.
>
>>
>> * The footer still says "index" and links to the previous homepage...
>> could we match that up with the dynamic top menu?
>
> Actually, I would like to keep the index alive somewhere on the site,
> if only as a fun moment for people to browse the site in a more
> serendipitous way. If you think "index" is confusing we could rename
> it?
>
>>
>>
>> * Header: "download" -> "downloads" plural, a first (subtle) hint that
>> there is not (yet) an automatic 1-click installer....
>
>
> Done.
>
>>
>>
>> * Footer: justified left? So as to be 100% sure the homepage and
>> sitemap links will be visible at small screen resolutions, but also
>> because at high resolutions it jumps to the right and I feel disturbs
>> the "air" of the screenshots margin.
>
> Good catch! You uncovered a bug--the footer should always be left
> aligned. Fixed now.
>
>>
>>
>> * Trademark: my understanding is that through the SFC we have
>> trademarked Sugar and Sugar Labs. Like copyright, it's best-practice
>> to indicate that registration. I don't think we need to go as far as
>> "Sugar and Sugar Labs are trademarks of....", a little superscript
>> "TM" in the footer e.g. "(c) 2009 Sugar Labs^TM" would do the trick.
>>
>
> Added.
>
>>
>> * Although I still don't like the black background which I find
>> gloomy, I don't think now is the time to fiddle with that. But I have
>> to say I do find it extremely cool that the homepage colors change
>> with the logo... the suggestion of surprise, of diversity in color.
>> That said, each time I did find the grey text having less importance
>> than the colored text... like "labs" is secondary to "sugar" in the
>> logo. Whereas the text should be of equal importance throughout I
>> think... As the screenshot + Dongyun Lee illustration have lots of
>> white, perhaps the grey homepage text up to "try it..." could be white
>> instead? Unless that messes up printing (white on white) and dominates
>> the grey of the logo, in which case a lighter grey? Alternatively: the
>> colored text a little darker, which would bring out the brightness of
>> the logo color and make the contrast with the grey less pronounced.
>> These approaches would make the page more readable I believe because
>> the logo "labs" grey and navigation grey ("more information",
>> copyright notice) are stable and anyway of secondary importance to the
>> text... Ultimately, I believe that there's a very effective color
>> balance to be found between the logo (+motto) and copy text. The logo
>> size has everything to do with this balance, in my view.
>>
>
> I'll try a slightly larger mark, though the balance between the logo
> and the typography is carefully considered. I tried white type at
> first, but it tends to overwhelm the colored type.
>
>>
>> * "Try it with a child today." the period colored as well? Nitpicking,
>> but the call to action *is* vital - it's the conclusion of the pitch.
>>
>
> Changed.
>
>>
>> * "content is available under attribution 3.0 unported" -> "content is
>> available under CC attribution 3.0 unported" ?
>>
>
> Fixed.
>
>>
>> * The Dongyun Lee illustration legend: "The Sugar Experience" -> "the
>> sugar experience: Activities" ? As I've said, I think star marketing
>> -> spotlight on Activities will always put our best foot forward.
>> Lowercase for the legends would be in line with the logo, header,
>> footer, and "next->" nav; while capitalizing "Activities" will
>> indicate their importance. They are what kids spend most of their time
>> in Sugar doing, many Activities are exclusive to Sugar, and their
>> collaborative features make them more effective on the Sugar Learning
>> Platform than if they were taken out and thrown onto another GUI. [By
>> the way, I can imagine seeing on some... generous education portal
>> site a 468x60 anim-GIF ad banner showing: 1) a TamTam Jam logo 2) +
>> text "TamTam Jam" 3) text "one of 30 Activities of the award-winning
>> Sugar Learning Platform." 4) text "try it with a child today" + Sugar
>> Labs logo]
>>
>
> In this case I'm not sure the Activities emphasis makes sense (though
> I generally agree with you). The Dongyun piece is really larger than
> just individual activities... Though, if you have another suggestion
> for "The Sugar Experience", let me know--I was never terribly happy
> with that wording.

Ah I forgot this a moment ago in my other mail
the reason I like the word Activities in that legend is the prominence
of the Write logo... and happy kids doing I imagine... an Activity ;-)


>
>>
>> * In a similar vein, could we link from "Sugar Activities" in the text
>> body to the Activities page?
>
> Normally, yes, but we can't link from inside headlines. Could we add
> an "Activities" link to one of the gray paragraphs by changing the
> text?

Well, instead of: "Available in 25 languages, Sugar is used every
school day by almost one-million children in more than forty
countries." we could say: "Available in 25 languages, Sugar's
Activities are used every school day by almost one-million children in
more than forty countries." and link from that?


>
>>
>>
>> * hmmm it's true we don't have the press phone number(s) yet but we
>> can't have no contact link at all on the homepage... I think David
>> mentioned there is a pr at sugarlabs.org address? We could add a simple
>> mailto: to the footer, and if that account could have forwarding rules
>> on it we could at least be contactable instead of mysterious ;-)
>>
>
> Added.
>
>>
>> * We don't have "about us"... as a quick solution, may I suggest we
>> link the "Sugar Labs" text in the footer to
>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs ?
>
> Done.
>
>>
>>
>> ********** /homepage **********
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>> <christianmarc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Comments inline below. The latest changes are on my server:
>>>
>>> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/betasite_alt/
>>>
>>>
>>>> I do feel however that the Activities need to be very prominently
>>>> displayed and talked about - they are the heart of the Sugar
>>>> experience and, in my view, the reason learners/parents/teachers would
>>>> consider trying Sugar. Perhaps even a separate menu section. Under the
>>>> Parents section, they are merely referred to as "the usual
>>>> collection", which clashes with the presentation of Sugar as specially
>>>> made for kids. Wouldn't it be better to say e.g.: "The heart of Sugar
>>>> is its Activities" (capitalized), then develop the collaboration
>>>> advantage, mention View Source which satisifies children's curiosity,
>>>> etc. Then: "In addition, more traditional Activities such as a web
>>>> browser, an ebook reader, ..." On the Activities page, I would stress
>>>> the richness of the Activities, e.g. add a leader "Sugar Activities
>>>> are fun, friendly, thought-provoking, and collaborative - kids can't
>>>> get enough of them!" (P.S. I was a little confused that the links
>>>> leave the site to a page they can only return from with the back
>>>> button - perhaps links outside the site could load in a single
>>>> separate window, so people don't get lost?)
>>>
>>> Sean, it would be great if you could help re-write some of this
>>> content where you see fit.
>>>
>>> I have changed external links globally so they open in a separate window/tab.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also: every parent and teacher knows that if kids enjoy the material,
>>>> it's far easier for them to learn. So we need to communicate on that
>>>> first page that kids love using Sugar because it's fun. A photo would
>>>> be ideal, but even some quotable quotes could do it e.g.: "I like the
>>>> games and making music with TamTam", "I can chat with my friends", "I
>>>> like to draw with it", "I never lose my work because the computer
>>>> remembers it".
>>>
>>> Testimonials are a GREAT idea. We should add these as they come in,
>>> maybe those "in the field" can start gathering quotes and photos.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * I found the floating menu disconcerting at first, since it hides
>>>> text - I thought it was a bug. It took me a while to figure out it is
>>>> a live menu. Could its function as a menu be indicated? Perhaps the
>>>> categories could be arranged in a bar at the top of each screen -
>>>> visitors will thus quickly gain an overview of the sections.
>>>
>>> I have changed the menu to remain fixed at the top of the screen.
>>> There is a sitemap in the footer for a more comprehensive overview.
>>>
>>> Also, to aid navigation I have suggested to Walter that we treat
>>> section landing pages as portals to that section, explaining and
>>> linking directly to the various subpages. Thus the "contributors"
>>> landing page would point to the subpages "teams", "deployment", and
>>> "getting involved". The "about" overview page would work similarly.
>>> The main navigation at the top will then function as a persistent but
>>> supplementary device for navigating the site.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * May we add "Press" after Contributors? Which is where the contact
>>>> info will go ;-) but which could link to the Marketing Team page for
>>>> now.
>>>
>>> We should absolutely add "press", but I'd wait until we have content to fill it!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * Can we get screenshots on the Features page, like the Parents page?
>>>> Show & tell better than just tell ;-)
>>>
>>> I've added a few images in the latest build.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * As the site is very textual, is there a search function?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure search is really necessary as the site is so small, but let's
>>> keep this in the back of our minds. It would be easy to add a Google
>>> search later down the road.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * There is a bug with the floating menu, if I click on Teachers, then
>>>> rollover the menu, then click Back on the browser, the hompage appears
>>>> with the menu opened but nothing selected. (Firefox v3.0.5 on OSX
>>>> v10.4)
>>>
>>> Fixed.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * Although there is a license footer, there should first be a
>>>> copyright notice, e.g. "Copyright (c) 2009 Sugar Labs". Reminder, CC
>>>> licenses are based on copyright law and it's best-practice to assert
>>>> that right.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Changed.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * Under features, I'd be tempted to add a downside section; e.g. "Is
>>>> Sugar right for my child's classroom?" which could be an opportunity
>>>> to knock down arguments that it's not Windows, it's too different,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Again, great idea. We can also add this section later, but I agree
>>> that it's an opportunity.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * This has been under discussion & I've been meditating on it, but
>>>> there really should be a very short slogan under the logo which should
>>>> sum up Sugar Labs. Which could be changed later... but anything decent
>>>> will be better than nothing I feel. I'm afraid I don't like "the
>>>> learning engine for every child"... sounds technical, like they have
>>>> to spend too much time learning how to use it. Keeping in mind our
>>>> desire for teacher buy-in, how about "School software for children" or
>>>> "Learning software for children" ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not convinced that we need a slogan. I fear it would "cheapen" the
>>> strength of the brand. Actually, I think the latest homepage text is
>>> very descriptive. If the slogan still seems desirable, I would suggest
>>> using it in the browser title and (sparingly) within body copy.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * The download link... to the directories... will appear to be a site
>>>> error to a nontechnical user. May I suggest
>>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems instead, until we can
>>>> provide 1-click installers?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I decided to link it to the Try Sugar page instead:
>>>
>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar
>>>
>>> That page still needs work (discussed on Friday), but Supported
>>> Systems feels a bit too techy...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * In the floating menu I think "homepage" or even "table of contents"
>>>> would be better than "index"... an index is traditionally at the end
>>>> of a book ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Changed to "home".
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * Activities page: instead of alpha sort, I would mix them up and
>>>> start with the Journal
>>>
>>> That's a possibility, but alpha sort is perhaps best if we are
>>> thinking of future scalability. But let me know if you'd like to try a
>>> specific order.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ..more to come....
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> Sean
>>>> Marketing Coordinator
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks so much, Sean--great feedback, please let me know if you have
>>> any other suggestions of content edits!
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> anything at christianmarcschmidt.com
>>>
>>> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>>>
>>> 917/ 575 0013
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> anything at christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> 917/ 575 0013
>