<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hello,<br><br></div>Even in peaceful New Mexico my inbox is full of this discussion, so please allow me to at least share a link to a <a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/asymptopia/tuxwordsmith/master/xdxf/English-Idioms/dict.xdxf">Dictionary of English Idioms</a>.<br><br></div><div>@Hilary, thanks for figuring out what was even going on! I searched for a reference to anyone's "mother" and skimmed right over "run to mommie". It did not even occur to me that that was the refernce, because I understand it as an idiom immediately and automatically. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Charles<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Hilary Naylor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hnaylor@gmail.com" target="_blank">hnaylor@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi James and all,</div><div><br></div><div>It appears to me that the phrase "run to Mommie" (or "mommy" as is more common) is a perfect example of your first scenario. It just doesn't mean what the translation probably implies "run to your mother." I quick review of the phrase in Google (in English) illustrates how it is used (not that it is polite, but it has nothing to do with anyone's mother). </div><div> I'd suggest that the first rule of multi-cultural, multi-lingual e-lists like this one should be "no English idioms"! </div><div><br></div><div>thanks</div><div>Hilary</div><div><br></div><div>---Original Message---</div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:06:09 +1000</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">From: James Cameron <</span><a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank"><span class="m_-2099027838146746635gmail-il">quozl@laptop.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">To: </span><a href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">, </span><a href="mailto:slobs@lists.sugarlabs.org" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank"><wbr>slobs@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Subject: Re: [IAEP] Code of Conduct Motion to add Anti-harassment</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> policy - Sugar Labs</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Long reply.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I'm very familiar with the geek feminism team and the conference</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">anti-harassment policy, as I've been a regular speaker at</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><a href="http://linux.conf.au/" rel="noreferrer" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">linux.conf.au</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">. I support the work of the geek feminism team. For my</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">part, two of my friends who are female are part of the overall geek</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">feminism movement. The conference policy is essential. I support the</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">policy itself, but I don't think Sugar Labs needs it yet.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I'm also familiar with abuse and harassment policies in general, as</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I've been studying and implementing them as part of another</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">organisation. Earlier this week 130 or so pages of canon law passed</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">my eyes.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Walter asked Laura why existing code of conduct is insufficient;</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">perhaps another way of asking why the policy would be needed. At time</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">of my writing, Laura hasn't answered. I look forward to an answer.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">For my part, I guess there are two possible scenarios, and which is</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">correct I cannot be sure. Perhaps none, perhaps one, perhaps both.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">1. a misunderstanding.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Since almost everything here in Sugar Labs mailing lists is in</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">English, and there is no independent third party doing translation,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">any non-english speaker is obliged to manage their own translation,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Laura says english is not her first language. So everything I say has</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">to be translated. When translating there are a choice of</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">interpretations. English has several meanings.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">This risks an uncharitable translation, which may result in silently</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">taking offense, which may set a person against me.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">This in turn increases the probability of the next translation being</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">uncharitable, caused now by a decision to act against all my</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">interests, despite some interests being held in common.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">A positive feedback loop begins, with each communication raising the</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">ire of each participant. This may partly explain my stress and tears</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">in the design meeting; I felt I wasn't listened to, as if a prejudice</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">had already built to the point of deafness.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">For my part, I hope Sebastian isn't the translator. If so, I'm</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">doomed. ;-)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">2. side attack.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">A less charitable interpretation is that Laura is searching around for</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">procedural weapons to use against me, which in itself is a form of</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">abuse. This seems less likely now than a misunderstanding, because it</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">would be such an unwise thing to do. Laura should not be the one to</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">propose this motion, because it could look like an attack. Laura</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">might instead have asked another to propose it, or the motion could</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">have been private to slobs@. It can only be an attack on me if it is</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">copied to iaep@.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Summary</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">The proposed policy is not needed, because the code of conduct already</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">includes a summary form, and says the oversight board will arbitrate.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">The oversight board is the response team, and reports would be private</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">to them.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">(As an aside, If I had approached the board alleging harassment under</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">the code of conduct, I would have written to the board without</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">including anyone involved in the abuse or harassment. If Laura had</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">approach the board alleging harassment under the code of conduct, the</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">board would have to acknowledge and then discuss without including</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Laura. The proposed policy identifies the same difficulty with the</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">response team.)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">The proposed policy is unsustainable, because we have so few active</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">people in Sugar Labs. With GCI and GSoC inactive, most posts are from</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">myself, Laura, or the oversight board. It is unlikely there would be</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">agreement on making a separate response team, and the confidential</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">nature of the response team would make it hard for them to manage</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">communication.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Alternatives</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">However, I welcome any independent third party to assist Laura and</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">myself to be more charitable in our translations and interpretations,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">and defuse what might be seen as mutual harassment born from</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">misunderstanding. Others have become silent instead.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">As Sugar Labs is so small, I don't expect an independent third party</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">will make such an offer, so as an alternative I ask that Laura and</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">others clearly identify any harassment, and in return I'll do the</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">same. I've already begun this. It will increase volume of mailing</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">list posts, which is unfortunate, but seems necessary.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I recognise that the proposed policy would also protect me, and I</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">could make a report under the policy; on the issues of employment,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">intimidation, and sustained disruption of discussion.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Thank you to the six people who responded privately to my concerns of</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">harassment, and I hope we can make Sugar Labs a place where you can</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">speak freely.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><div><div class="m_-2099027838146746635gmail_signature">---<br>Hilary Naylor, Ph.D. <br><a href="http://www.a2zed.us" target="_blank">www.a2zed.us</a><br>Oakland CA</div></div>
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