<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br class="">Hi Caryl and Sam</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Reading the proposed Vision statement[*] we seem to be confusing a Vision Statement (which tends to be short & high level) with a detailed list of goals that Sugar Labs should try to accomplish this year.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I moved the goals to their own page to clarify what is goals and what is vision; thus the vision page is now very clearly short and high level; and I have then edited the goals page to address Sam's points, <a href="https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=2016_Goals&action=history">https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=2016_Goals&action=history</a></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>The goals need to be based on the level of volunteer and professional support Sugar Labs expects to have, and not just be everyone's wish list.<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Don't put the cart before the horse :) I think it is best to gather everyone's wish list items in a single place, and then in a second stage they can be prioritised in terms of effort:impact ratios, resource availability, etc. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>A definite end-of-life date needs to put on XO-1 support. </li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sure! What do you think that date should be, Sam? </div><div><br></div><div>What do other people think? <br><br>I offer that Sugar Labs should follow OLPC Inc's lead on this, and continue to support the XO-1 for as long as they are.</div><div><br></div><div>Does anyone know for how long OLPC will be supporting the XO-1?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>As time goes on, it will take more work to backport things to work properly on its processor (lacking certain i686 CPU instructions) and its 256 MB of RAM. Unless Sugar & its apps will support a wide range of underlying library versions {good for cross-distro work}, those will have to be backported as well.</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div>James Cameron is already doing this work, and I see no reason to make James Cameron's job harder, while he is doing it, by making him solely responsible for doing that work. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>Before Sugar Labs purchases any XO-4s, OLPC's and Quanta's end-of-life dates for the product need to be determined, along with expected purchase demand. <br><br>The design is now 3 years old. If Marvell stops making the processors, or another battery manufacturer decides to stop making the XO's irregular battery size again, Sugar Labs could have a lot of undesired stock on hand.<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div>Can you find out these dates for us, Sam? :)</div><div><br></div><div>If not you, who can tell us these dates?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>Do not limit Sugar to any particular technology on Chrome OS. Schools are purchasing Chromebooks *because* they can be locked down to a known set of applications. Many districts may be unwilling to put them in development mode so Sugar can be used. Development mode and/or "rooting" the device may cause other programs they use for testing, etc., to refuse to work.<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Clearly Crouton will work well for anyone who owns their own machine. </div><div><br></div><div>For districts, I think Broadway might provide a solution, but clearly the best way to provide the Sugar learning environment to ChromeOS users is with Sugarizer. </div><div><br></div><div>I've updated the goals page to list these 2 paths forwards. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>If Sugar is to be accepted by larger school districts, it needs to fit their enterprise software model of deployment. This includes potentially the Tivoization of Sugar, however contradictory that may be with the GPLv3.</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This point is very vague for me :) Please explain more about it :D</div><div><br></div><div>What larger school districts is even interested in Sugar? (I'm totally ignorant here, but I don't expect we would see any districts in any country start to deploy sugar in 2016.) </div><div><br></div><div>What are schools' "enterprise software models of deployment"? Where can we read about them? </div><div><br></div><div>And what would the Tivoization of Sugar be like? :)</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>If you nag for funding persistently the way the vision currently describes, I think Sugar Labs is more likely to lose members than gain any funding. Asking quarterly (like Public TV stations in the US) could be appropriate.<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div>I found this point rather confusing, because nagging on a quarterly basis is exactly what I had in mind :)</div><div><br></div><div>What is the value of "members" who don't contribute to the mailing lists, to the software, or to the funding of the project? Its totally normal for people to leave projects, and seems to me rather senseless to claim people are 'members' when they don't contribute in any way in recent years. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>I do not see a goal to get Sugar more widely used in schools. </li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div>Then you should have added one! :) I took the liberty of going ahead and doing this already, but please do edit what I drafted :)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>This may require having someone create detailed guides describing how Sugar can be integrated with various state curriculums, similar to work Claudia and Mellisa did for OLPC-A. </li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Where can I see the work Claudia and Mellisa did?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>There may be software tweaks required to make school districts (and not just individual schools) happy as well.<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div>Sure! </div><div><br></div><div>Who here has any connections to any school districts? :)</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><ul><li>Has Sugar Labs given up on expanding its presence in larger/US-style school districts, or is this just an oversight?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote></div><div>Its a wiki! If someone sees an oversight, please go ahead and edit the page to correct it directly! :) <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 June 2016 at 21:27, Caryl Bigenho <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com" target="_blank">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>I think Sam is asking some really good, but difficult, questions which is exactly what SugarLabs needs. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>:)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>We do need, as he suggests, an overall Vision Statement (SugarLabs Goals) and more specific objectives to be met to achieve those goals (education-eze, sorry folks).</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Please do write a vision statement following the kind of structure you have in mind, I'd love to compare it to the statement I've been drafting that began with Lionel's :) </div><div><div><div> <br></div></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>He also makes some very, very good observations on the directions we should be heading in light of the actual state of XOs and Sugar use in general. So often it seems SugarLabs is chasing history rather than looking to the future.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>:)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Why can't we start with a vision statement that outlines some broad overall goals? </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think the vision statement _does_ outline the broad overall goals. Please edit the page to be what you think it should be, or provide a new draft :) <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Then we can go on to develop some specific achievable objectives that include (as all objectives must… education-eze again) : What will be accomplished, by Whom, When, using What Tools, and How will the Success be Measured?</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div><div>I think <a href="https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/2016_Goals">https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/2016_Goals</a> is growing into a fine list of ideas for what could be accomplished :) <br></div><div><br></div><div>Would you be willing to turn it into a table (or spreadsheet) so the other aspects can be filled in as columns? </div></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>A good place to start would be to answer as many of Sam's questions as possible </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree! I've done as much as I can :) </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>so we have a clear idea of what is possible and what we can expect to be working with in the future. Then make the Vision Statement based on the result of the overview and fill in with both short term and long term goals.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Maybe prioritising the goals could be a good way to test out loomio or other voting software we can use later in the year for the slob election :) </div><div><br></div><div>Cheers<br>Dave</div></div> </div></div>