<div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:16 AM, James Cameron <<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Anish, perhaps remove "educationally focused" as a description of companies doing this. Why would only educationally focused companies do it? </blockquote><div> </div><div>I didn't imply that. What I wanted to say was educationally focused companies are doing this "as well", which is relevant to this email list (iaep, unleashkids). The links you post below are representative of a larger issue. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> See for example; <a href="http://theconversation.com/junk-food-advertisers-put-profits-before-childrens-health-and-we-let-them-51250" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://theconversation.com/junk-food-advertisers-put-profits-before-childrens-health-and-we-let-them-51250</a> We tried self-regulation. What happened was we let people suffer when market forces are allowed to substitute for regulation and law. Bring back choice by the people; <a href="http://theconversation.com/democracy-that-bows-down-to-the-market-is-a-false-compromise-49135" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://theconversation.com/democracy-that-bows-down-to-the-market-is-a-false-compromise-49135</a> At heart, the idea of a company; a robotic organisation that can declare limited liability, now seems less ethical than full liability. This discussion thread seems mostly wasted time. Without fixing the underlying causes, the bugs will come back. </blockquote><div> </div><div>I found it quite enlightening, the recent fire tablet thread. Here's a sampling of comments (w/o attribution) "Well, in spite of the ads, I am enjoying my tablet" "on flights to and from Texas I watched a few movies" "I'm enjoying mine for what it is. The free 6-month Washington Post subscription alone is a $51 value." "Tablets, on the other hand, are immediately recognized as status objects, and everyone likes it when they're new." "We're not interested in computer science, coding, or a constructivist learning model." "I had the option of paying $15 more per tablet to avoid ads, but I didn't consider that an essential feature so I didn't pay" "The "special offers" appear only on the startup screen, no where else. Not a big deal," </div><div>It seems the kool-aid has been drunk. Why blame the companies only! </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> On Thu, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:55:29AM +0530, Anish Mangal wrote: > You can be sure that if google is doing it, a large number of smaller more > educationally focused companies are in this as well. It is perhaps not worth > EFFs time to go after them individually. > > This just highlights the risks of living your life on the cloud, and why > increasingly, movements like [1]<a href="http://redecentralize.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redecentralize.org/</a> are gathering > momentum. It maybe okay for adults, but with children, taking their decisions > for them with huge future implications for their lives - a lot more thought > needs to go in (eg: the recent amazon fire tablet thread) > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Adam Holt <[2]<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > > ReCode has a useful summary of today's back+forth accusations down below. > > But younger students may want to understand first, who invited the > advertising industry into the classroom in the 1st place: > > [3]<a href="https://epic.org/privacy/student/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://epic.org/privacy/student/</a> > [4]<a href="http://www.studentprivacymatters.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.studentprivacymatters.org</a> > [5]<a href="https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/research/studentprivacy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/research/studentprivacy</a> > [6]<a href="https://washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/03/06/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/03/06/</a> > why-a-student-privacy-bill-of-rights-is-desperately-needed/ > > On Dec 2, 2015 8:32 PM, "Adam Holt" <[7]<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > > > > Google goes for the Trump defense, denying everything: > > > > [8]<a href="http://googleforeducation.blogspot.com/2015/12/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://googleforeducation.blogspot.com/2015/12/</a> > the-facts-about-student-data-privacy-in.html > > > > EFF clarifies Google’s Student Tracking Isn’t Limited to Chrome Sync: > > > > [9]<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/</a> > googles-student-tracking-isnt-limited-chrome-sync > > ReCode Summary Excerpt: > > 'The EFF, in its Wednesday post, admits that Sync can be a useful service, > but stresses that students shouldn’t be “guinea pigs in Google’s efforts to > improve its products” without the explicit approval of their parents. > > “Google is creating this little army of loyal users. These kids are being > conditioned to give up their personal data in order to go online,” said > Cope, the EFF lawyer. “There’s just a lot of opaqueness of what data > they’re collecting and how they’re using it.” > > More than 200 companies have signed the Student Privacy Pledge, including > Apple and Microsoft. (Google actually initially declined to sign the > pledge, citing its existing privacy rules, [10]but then changed course a > week later.) > > A rep for the FTC confirmed that the agency had received the EFF complaint, > but declined to comment further. > > Google was [11]forced to pay a $22.5 million fine to the FTC in 2012 to > settle charges for tracking Apple iPhone users. > > Tech companies have all benefited from a White House initiative to prepare > students for the 21st century. Google may be the biggest beneficiary; while > its affordable Chromebooks have not seen wide consumer traction, they’ve > taken off in schools. IDC estimates that sales of the devices grew by 310 > percent last year, surpassing sales from Microsoft and Apple.' > > In Full: > [12]<a href="http://recode.net/2015/12/02/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://recode.net/2015/12/02/</a> > google-no-were-not-snooping-on-students-with-our-chromebooks-apps/ > > > On Dec 2, 2015 1:00 PM, "Adam Holt" <[13]<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > >> > >> On Dec 2, 2015 11:02 AM, "Jerry Vonau" <[14]<a href="mailto:jvonau3@gmail.com">jvonau3@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > >> > > >> > That was one of the fears I had about enabling sugar's webservices[1]. > I was refusing to implement that functionality in the AU images as each > territory in AU has a different education department with different rules, > but was available in the SL testing images that were being produced by > myself the time. Now I have to ask the question has SugarLabs or other > deployments such as OneEducation signed the "Student Privacy Pledge"? Even > as a non-profit I would still consider them a company just protected by a > corporate shield. > >> > >> Careful! > >> > >> When [15]<a href="http://studentprivacypledge.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://studentprivacypledge.org</a> appears to be a shill quickly > created by an advertising industry/Doubleclick/AOL alum, funded by the > likes of Axciom ([16]<a href="http://youtu.be/F7P2ViCRObs" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/F7P2ViCRObs</a> !) whose business models > inherently compel "astroturf" DC lobbying to avoid student privacy > practices with teeth. > >> > >> Very clever name they chose ("Future of Privacy") as if DC lobbyists > will have the final word on our mental-spiritual futures? Even if Amazon > still refuses to sign the Student Privacy Pledge 14 months later, that they > and Google helped fund, comical if it weren't real peoples lives they were > playing with? > >> > >> At least the presumptuous "Future of Privacy" is honest enough to > outline at [17]<a href="https://fpf.org/about/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fpf.org/about/</a> that they are DC lobbyists for > business as usual ("self-regulation") rather than informed student/family > consent. Yet more unreadable disclaimers, rather than tight clarity, and > clean recourse with teeth. > >> > >> With so much DC lobbying money sloshing around ([18]<a href="https://fpf.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fpf.org/</a> > about/supporters/) they will certainly be a player! Driving home Silicon > Valley's predominant "our-antiprivacy-is-so-much-better-than-the-NSA's" > mindset into 2016's elections, and far beyond? > >> > >> Ourselves, we should start with Global Educators, who _genuinely_ care > about student/community autonomy, the environment, and self-determination > as a life trajectory. Beyond DC entrapment and the latest Wall Street > earnings target --- here instead are folks with Actual Backbones, opening > avenues of HOPE not fatalism: > >> > >> [19]<a href="http://studentdataprinciples.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://studentdataprinciples.org</a> > >> [20]<a href="https://www.unglobalcompact.org/take-action/action/child-rights" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.unglobalcompact.org/take-action/action/child-rights</a> > >> [21]<a href="https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy</a> > >> [22]<a href="http://childrenandbusiness.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://childrenandbusiness.org</a> > >> > >> > Just my nickel's worth, > >> > > >> > Jerry > >> > > >> > 1. [23]<a href="https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Web_Services" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Web_Services</a> <div><div class="h5">> >> > > >> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Adam Holt <[24]<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Electronic Frontier Foundation says Google collects data from > students and uses it to target ads and improve its products. > >> >> > >> >> "The digital rights group said Google’s use of the data, collected > through its Google for Education program, puts the company in breach of > Section 5 of the Federal Communications Act and asked the Federal Trade > Commission to investigate. > >> >> > >> >> Despite publicly promising not to, Google mines students’ browsing > data and other information, and uses it for the company’s own purposes,” > the EFF said..." > >> >> > >> >> "Last month, Google said more than 50 million students and teachers > around the globe were using Google Apps for Education, along with 10 > million Chromebooks. The Google-powered laptops are “the best-selling > device in U.S. K-12 schools,” according to Google. > >> >> > >> >> But the EFF has some issues with the way Google delivers those > services. It says the company records everything students do while they’re > logged into their Google accounts, regardless of the device or browser > they’re using, including their search history, the search results they > click on and the videos they watch on YouTube. > >> >> > >> >> Google aggregates and anonymizes the data collected through its > education services, the EFF said, but not when the students are using other > Google services. And it argues that truly anonymizing data is “difficult to > the point of being impossible,” especially when it’s tied to identifiable > accounts at the time of collection. > >> >> > >> >> Google’s practices “fly in the face of commitments made when it > signed the Student Privacy Pledge,” the EFF said, referring to a document > signed by 200 companies including Google, Microsoft and Apple..." > >> >> </div></div>> >> >> [25]<a href="http://www.pcworld.com/article/3011076/privacy/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.pcworld.com/article/3011076/privacy/</a> > google-accused-of-tracking-school-kids-after-it-promised-not-to.html > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ [26]<a href="http://unleashkids.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://unleashkids.org</a> > ! > >> >> --- > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Unleash Kids" group. > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to [27]<a href="mailto:unleashkids%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unleashkids+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>. > >> >> For more options, visit [28]<a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ [29]<a href="http://unleashkids.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://unleashkids.org</a> ! > >> > --- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Unleash Kids" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [30]<a href="mailto:unleashkids%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unleashkids+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>. > >> > For more options, visit [31]<a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>. > > -- > Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ [32]<a href="http://unleashkids.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://unleashkids.org</a> ! > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Unleash Kids" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [33]<a href="mailto:unleashkids%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unleashkids+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>. > For more options, visit [34]<a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>. > > References: > > [1] <a href="http://redecentralize.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://redecentralize.org/</a> > [2] mailto:<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a> > [3] <a href="https://epic.org/privacy/student/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://epic.org/privacy/student/</a> > [4] <a href="http://www.studentprivacymatters.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.studentprivacymatters.org/</a> > [5] <a href="https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/research/studentprivacy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/research/studentprivacy</a> > [6] <a href="https://washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/03/06/why-a-student-privacy-bill-of-rights-is-desperately-needed/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/03/06/why-a-student-privacy-bill-of-rights-is-desperately-needed/</a> > [7] mailto:<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a> > [8] <a href="http://googleforeducation.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-facts-about-student-data-privacy-in.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://googleforeducation.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-facts-about-student-data-privacy-in.html</a> > [9] <a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/googles-student-tracking-isnt-limited-chrome-sync" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/googles-student-tracking-isnt-limited-chrome-sync</a> > [10] <a href="http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/20/google-changes-course-signs-student-data-privacy-pledge/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/20/google-changes-course-signs-student-data-privacy-pledge/</a> > [11] <a href="http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443404004577579232818727246" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443404004577579232818727246</a> > [12] <a href="http://recode.net/2015/12/02/google-no-were-not-snooping-on-students-with-our-chromebooks-apps/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://recode.net/2015/12/02/google-no-were-not-snooping-on-students-with-our-chromebooks-apps/</a> > [13] mailto:<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a> > [14] mailto:<a href="mailto:jvonau3@gmail.com">jvonau3@gmail.com</a> > [15] <a href="http://studentprivacypledge.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://studentprivacypledge.org/</a> > [16] <a href="http://youtu.be/F7P2ViCRObs" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/F7P2ViCRObs</a> > [17] <a href="https://fpf.org/about/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fpf.org/about/</a> > [18] <a href="https://fpf.org/about/supporters/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://fpf.org/about/supporters/</a> > [19] <a href="http://studentdataprinciples.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://studentdataprinciples.org/</a> > [20] <a href="https://www.unglobalcompact.org/take-action/action/child-rights" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.unglobalcompact.org/take-action/action/child-rights</a> > [21] <a href="https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/issues/student-privacy</a> > [22] <a href="http://childrenandbusiness.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://childrenandbusiness.org/</a> > [23] <a href="https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Web_Services" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Web_Services</a> > [24] mailto:<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org">holt@laptop.org</a> > [25] <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/article/3011076/privacy/google-accused-of-tracking-school-kids-after-it-promised-not-to.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.pcworld.com/article/3011076/privacy/google-accused-of-tracking-school-kids-after-it-promised-not-to.html</a> > [26] <a href="http://unleashkids.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://unleashkids.org/</a> > [27] mailto:<a href="mailto:unleashkids%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unleashkids%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a> > [28] <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a> > [29] <a href="http://unleashkids.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://unleashkids.org/</a> > [30] mailto:<a href="mailto:unleashkids%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unleashkids%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a> > [31] <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a> > [32] <a href="http://unleashkids.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://unleashkids.org/</a> > [33] mailto:<a href="mailto:unleashkids%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unleashkids+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a> > [34] <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a> > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> > <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> -- James Cameron <a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a> </blockquote></div> <div class="gmail_signature"> </div> </div></div>