<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 7:13 AM, Alan Kay <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.nemo@yahoo.com" target="_blank">alan.nemo@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif;font-size:16px">But there are good materials for learning Etoys, especially in Spanish, and especially for teachers. <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What Spanish materials exist? </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif;font-size:16px"><div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The last part I don't agree with because it contains a misconception about how to teach Etoys, and especially programming, to children and adults. <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for reminding me that alternatives exist. That's what I was trying to get at with the vague "different models would work differently" but going into specific details, based on experience, is much more helpful and promising. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It is not used nearly enough (many pro teachers feel a loss of authority, and that is more important to them that in how well the children are learning).<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, we are talking about how to teach children but the real problem is teaching adults to give up control and certainty. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 7:27 PM, Tony Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" target="_blank">tony_anderson@usa.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">I am not sure about how this could be accomplished where after-school programs are not feasible. <span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">At some of the schools I support, the teachers and students live too far from the school to stay after the normal day is over</span><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for reminding us about the other kinds of obstacles to implementing these programs. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
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On 03/05/2015 08:18 PM, <a href="mailto:iaep-request@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">iaep-request@lists.sugarlabs.<u></u>org</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 12:13:46 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: Alan Kay<<a href="mailto:alan.nemo@yahoo.com" target="_blank">alan.nemo@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: Sora Edwards-Thro<<a href="mailto:sora@unleashkids.org" target="_blank">sora@unleashkids.<u></u>org</a>>, Gonzalo Odiard<br>
<<a href="mailto:godiard@sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">godiard@sugarlabs.org</a>><br>
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs<<a href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">iaep@lists.<u></u>sugarlabs.org</a>>, Tim Falconer<br>
<<a href="mailto:timothy@immuexa.com" target="_blank">timothy@immuexa.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:support-gang@laptop.org" target="_blank">support-gang@laptop.org</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:support-gang@laptop.org" target="_blank">support-gang@laptop.org</a>><span class=""><br>
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Future Direction<br></span>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1578652867.4886132.1425557626158.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank">1578652867.4886132.<u></u>1425557626158.JavaMail.yahoo@<u></u>mail.yahoo.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Hi<br>
<br>
I agree with your first paragraph (although I don't know of really discoverable programming systems -- even Scratch has lots of conventions that are hard to discover). But I do agree that 5-10% of an population is better matched up to a given topic, and that the rest need more help of different kinds.<br>
But there are good materials for learning Etoys, especially in Spanish, and especially for teachers.<br>
<br>
The last part I don't agree with because it contains a misconception about how to teach Etoys, and especially programming, to children and adults.<br>
<br>
We found -- via many attempts -- that 1 on 1 -- then branching out -- works much much better than trying to teach a group. The "Drive a Car" project was invented to be the introduction, and it can be taught 1 on 1 in about 20 minutes. Now we have two teachers of "Drive a Car". Then 4 etc. It is worth taking the 100 minutes to carry this out. The reason for this approach is found in your first paragraph, and the key is the 1 on 1 which allows the time needed for specific learnings and questions about the project.<br>
Once a class has gotten going, then should eventually be the "first teachers" for the next class, and now the whole new class can be handled in ~30 minutes for the first exercise. This use of "peer teaching" works in other areas also, but it is particularly effective in technique learning. It is not used nearly enough (many pro teachers feel a loss of authority, and that is more important to them that in how well the children are learning).<br>
Cheers<br>
Alan<br>
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