<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div>Interesting that 5th graders learn Etoys very easily but teachers find "the learning curve too steep" hmmmmmm</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7633"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7634" dir="ltr">Cheers</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7635" dir="ltr">Alan<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7574"><span></span></div><br> <blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7578" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7577" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7576" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7575" dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bert Freudenberg <bert@freudenbergs.de><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Caryl Bigenho <cbigenho@hotmail.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> IAEP SugarLabs <iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>; Tim Falconer <timothy@immuexa.com>; "support-gang@laptop.org" <support-gang@laptop.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 4, 2015 11:57 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IAEP] Future Direction<br> </font> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7623" class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv4324170632"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7630">On 04.03.2015, at 10:44, Caryl Bigenho <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" ymailto="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7629"><blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7628" class="yiv4324170632" type="cite"><br class="yiv4324170632Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7627" class="yiv4324170632">
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7626" class="yiv4324170632hmmessage"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7625" class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7636" class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3">Hi...</font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7624" class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7638" class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7637" class="yiv4324170632" size="3">Some thoughts about Etoys: Tim Falconer and other folks at Waveplace (deployments around the Caribbean) have made excellent use of Etoys and have made a series of lessons about its use available at:</font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7641" class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7640" class="yiv4324170632" size="3"><a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7639" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" target="_blank" href="http://www.waveplace.com/courseware/basic-etoys/">http://www.waveplace.com/courseware/basic-etoys/</a></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7642" class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7632" class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1425499098114_7631" class="yiv4324170632" size="3">However, I don't recall seeing anywhere that they use many other parts of Sugar with the students. So the question could become: does Etoys need to be "packaged" with Sugar. </font></div><div class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></font></div><div class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3">Something to consider in answering the question is that Etoys is available in a very portable version as "Etoys to Go": <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" target="_blank" href="http://www.squeakland.org/download/">http://www.squeakland.org/download/</a> One nice feature about Etoys To Go is that you can put it on a thumb drive and move it from a Linux machine to a Windows machine to a Mac machine and the files will all be readable and usable! Also, it leaves nothing behind on the host machine. It is all on the usb drive!</font></div><div class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></font></div><div class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3">We can thank Bert Freudenberg for that! I'm adding him to this conversation so he might be able to give us an update on the latest news from Etoys… is a version for Android and/or IOS coming that would also be as portable as the current Etoys To Go? Universal portability would be a wonderful goal (for Sugar too)!</font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div>Supporting all the different platforms natively is too much work given our limited resources. Something that could become the "universal" version is this browser-based version (but that too needs work to optimize performance, and support other browsers than Chrome):</div><div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div><span class="yiv4324170632Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" target="_blank" href="http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/">http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/</a></div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4324170632" type="cite"><div class="yiv4324170632"><div class="yiv4324170632hmmessage"><div class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr"><div class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3">Personally, like Sora, I have found the Etoys learning curve a bit steep. Once I did a workshop about Etoys To Go for a roomful of tech-saavy teachers. They just really didn't get it. I also tried to contribute to a project where some folks were making some science lessons in Etoys… but found it really difficult to get it to do what I wanted it too. </font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div>Yep. Etoys was designed with extensive teacher training in mind, but that training never happened on a large scale. Scratch learned from that lesson, and while as a result it is not as powerful as Etoys, it is much more approachable and discoverable.</div><div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div>Btw, recently Tim Rowledge worked on the ARM version of Squeak for the Raspberry Pi, which both Etoys and Scratch benefit from. That should benefit the XO-4 too.</div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4324170632" type="cite"><div class="yiv4324170632"><div class="yiv4324170632hmmessage"><div class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr"><div class="yiv4324170632" style="font-family:Helvetica;"><font class="yiv4324170632" size="3">Yet, my favorite little ecology simulation is an Etoys featured project "Fish And Plankton". It is great fun to experiment with and can teach some powerful lessons! <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" target="_blank" href="http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7303">http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7303</a> Try letting it run overnight with different starting parameters and see what happens…. fun!</font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div>Yes, that's a nice one. It even works in Etoys/JS (if you can wait long enough for it to finish loading):</div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" target="_blank" href="http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/#fullscreen=true&document=http://freudenbergs.de/bert/squeakjs/FishAndPlankton.017.pr">http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/#fullscreen=true&document=http://freudenbergs.de/bert/squeakjs/FishAndPlankton.017.pr</a></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv4324170632yqt3665682709" id="yiv4324170632yqtfd26496"><div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div><span class="yiv4324170632" style="font-size:12px;">- Bert -</span></div><div class="yiv4324170632"><span class="yiv4324170632" style="font-size:12px;"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></span></div><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4324170632" type="cite"><div class="yiv4324170632"><div class="yiv4324170632hmmessage"><div class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr">Caryl<br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><div class="yiv4324170632"><hr class="yiv4324170632" id="yiv4324170632stopSpelling">Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 13:43:01 -0300<br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none">From: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" ymailto="mailto:godiard@sugarlabs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:godiard@sugarlabs.org">godiard@sugarlabs.org</a><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none">To: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" ymailto="mailto:sora@unleashkids.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:sora@unleashkids.org">sora@unleashkids.org</a><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none">CC: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" ymailto="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org">iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" ymailto="mailto:tkkang@nurturingasia.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:tkkang@nurturingasia.com">tkkang@nurturingasia.com</a>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4324170632" ymailto="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net">tony_anderson@usa.net</a><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none">Subject: Re: [IAEP] Future Direction<br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"><div class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr"><div class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_extra"><div class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote"><blockquote class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr"><div class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_extra"><div class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote"><div class="yiv4324170632"> </div><blockquote class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv4324170632">If we abandon etoys to maintain compatibility with
Fedora, what has the end-user gained?</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="yiv4324170632"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4324170632">We (SugarLabs) don't abandon etoys to maintain compatibility with Fedora.</div><div class="yiv4324170632">Fedora request a change on etoys, but Bert (who maintains etoys) is working for free,</div><div class="yiv4324170632">then we can't force him to dedicate hours to work on that. </div><div class="yiv4324170632"> </div><blockquote class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv4324170632" dir="ltr"><div class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_extra"><div class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote"><blockquote class="yiv4324170632ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">Would a GSOC effort be better devoted to moving from Scratch 1 to Scratch 2 than rewriting imageviewer?</blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="yiv4324170632"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4324170632">I don't know. Scratch 2 use Flash and need Adobe Air, then we need check how works in the XOs.</div><div class="yiv4324170632">I have read Scratch team is working in HTML5 version, that would be great.</div><div class="yiv4324170632"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4324170632">About rewrite imageviewer, if we want allow use Sugar to kids without XOs,we need move forward to HTML5/Js. </div><div class="yiv4324170632">Maybe Image Viewer is not a prioritary activity,</div><div class="yiv4324170632">but is a good task to introduce developers because is relatively easy.</div><div class="yiv4324170632"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4324170632">Anyway the proposed tasks for GSoC are only a start, you can propose other, and we will need do a selection</div><div class="yiv4324170632">when Google define how many projects will fund.</div><div class="yiv4324170632"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4324170632">Gonzalo </div><div class="yiv4324170632"><br class="yiv4324170632" clear="none"></div></div>
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