<div dir="ltr">We see that all time, is not surprising at all.<div>Some (but not all) kids will try until find the way,</div><div>and many adults are used to a more structured way of learning,</div><div>and are afraid of "break something".</div><div>Of course are cases and cases, but by example,</div><div>we never know about kids requesting documentation or manuals,</div><div>but adults, and specially teachers ask for that usually.</div><div><br></div><div>Gonzalo</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Alan Kay <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.nemo@yahoo.com" target="_blank">alan.nemo@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:16px"><div>Interesting that 5th graders learn Etoys very easily but teachers find "the learning curve too steep" hmmmmmm</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cheers</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Alan<br></div><div><span></span></div><br> <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px"> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Bert Freudenberg <<a href="mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de" target="_blank">bert@freudenbergs.de</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Caryl Bigenho <<a href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com" target="_blank">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> IAEP SugarLabs <<a href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>>; Tim Falconer <<a href="mailto:timothy@immuexa.com" target="_blank">timothy@immuexa.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:support-gang@laptop.org" target="_blank">support-gang@laptop.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:support-gang@laptop.org" target="_blank">support-gang@laptop.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 4, 2015 11:57 AM<div><div class="h5"><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IAEP] Future Direction<br> </div></div></font> </div><div><div class="h5"> <div><br><div><div>On 04.03.2015, at 10:44, Caryl Bigenho <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com" target="_blank">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><div><blockquote type="cite"><br clear="none"><div>
<div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Hi...</font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Some thoughts about Etoys: Tim Falconer and other folks at Waveplace (deployments around the Caribbean) have made excellent use of Etoys and have made a series of lessons about its use available at:</font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.waveplace.com/courseware/basic-etoys/" target="_blank">http://www.waveplace.com/courseware/basic-etoys/</a></font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">However, I don't recall seeing anywhere that they use many other parts of Sugar with the students. So the question could become: does Etoys need to be "packaged" with Sugar. </font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Something to consider in answering the question is that Etoys is available in a very portable version as "Etoys to Go": <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.squeakland.org/download/" target="_blank">http://www.squeakland.org/download/</a> One nice feature about Etoys To Go is that you can put it on a thumb drive and move it from a Linux machine to a Windows machine to a Mac machine and the files will all be readable and usable! Also, it leaves nothing behind on the host machine. It is all on the usb drive!</font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">We can thank Bert Freudenberg for that! I'm adding him to this conversation so he might be able to give us an update on the latest news from Etoys… is a version for Android and/or IOS coming that would also be as portable as the current Etoys To Go? Universal portability would be a wonderful goal (for Sugar too)!</font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Supporting all the different platforms natively is too much work given our limited resources. Something that could become the "universal" version is this browser-based version (but that too needs work to optimize performance, and support other browsers than Chrome):</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/" target="_blank">http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/</a></div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Personally, like Sora, I have found the Etoys learning curve a bit steep. Once I did a workshop about Etoys To Go for a roomful of tech-saavy teachers. They just really didn't get it. I also tried to contribute to a project where some folks were making some science lessons in Etoys… but found it really difficult to get it to do what I wanted it too. </font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Yep. Etoys was designed with extensive teacher training in mind, but that training never happened on a large scale. Scratch learned from that lesson, and while as a result it is not as powerful as Etoys, it is much more approachable and discoverable.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Btw, recently Tim Rowledge worked on the ARM version of Squeak for the Raspberry Pi, which both Etoys and Scratch benefit from. That should benefit the XO-4 too.</div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Yet, my favorite little ecology simulation is an Etoys featured project "Fish And Plankton". It is great fun to experiment with and can teach some powerful lessons! <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7303" target="_blank">http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7303</a> Try letting it run overnight with different starting parameters and see what happens…. fun!</font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Yes, that's a nice one. It even works in Etoys/JS (if you can wait long enough for it to finish loading):</div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/#fullscreen=true&document=http://freudenbergs.de/bert/squeakjs/FishAndPlankton.017.pr" target="_blank">http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/#fullscreen=true&document=http://freudenbergs.de/bert/squeakjs/FishAndPlankton.017.pr</a></div><div><br><br></div><div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="font-size:12px">- Bert -</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12px"><br clear="none"></span></div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div dir="ltr">Caryl<br clear="none"><div><hr>Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 13:43:01 -0300<br clear="none">From: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:godiard@sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">godiard@sugarlabs.org</a><br clear="none">To: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:sora@unleashkids.org" target="_blank">sora@unleashkids.org</a><br clear="none">CC: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:tkkang@nurturingasia.com" target="_blank">tkkang@nurturingasia.com</a>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" target="_blank">tony_anderson@usa.net</a><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [IAEP] Future Direction<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div> </div><blockquote style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>If we abandon etoys to maintain compatibility with
Fedora, what has the end-user gained?</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We (SugarLabs) don't abandon etoys to maintain compatibility with Fedora.</div><div>Fedora request a change on etoys, but Bert (who maintains etoys) is working for free,</div><div>then we can't force him to dedicate hours to work on that. </div><div> </div><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><blockquote style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Would a GSOC effort be better devoted to moving from Scratch 1 to Scratch 2 than rewriting imageviewer?</blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I don't know. Scratch 2 use Flash and need Adobe Air, then we need check how works in the XOs.</div><div>I have read Scratch team is working in HTML5 version, that would be great.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>About rewrite imageviewer, if we want allow use Sugar to kids without XOs,we need move forward to HTML5/Js. </div><div>Maybe Image Viewer is not a prioritary activity,</div><div>but is a good task to introduce developers because is relatively easy.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Anyway the proposed tasks for GSoC are only a start, you can propose other, and we will need do a selection</div><div>when Google define how many projects will fund.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Gonzalo </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div>
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IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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<br clear="none"></div></div></div><br><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a></div><br><br></div> </div></div></div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
<a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Gonzalo Odiard<br><br><div>SugarLabs - Software for children learning <br></div></div></div>
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