<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">On 04.03.2015, at 10:44, Caryl Bigenho <<a href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com" class="">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""> <style class=""></style> <div class="hmmessage"><div dir="ltr" class=""><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">Hi...</font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">Some thoughts about Etoys: Tim Falconer and other folks at Waveplace (deployments around the Caribbean) have made excellent use of Etoys and have made a series of lessons about its use available at:</font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class=""><a href="http://www.waveplace.com/courseware/basic-etoys/" class="">http://www.waveplace.com/courseware/basic-etoys/</a></font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica; min-height: 14px;" class=""><font size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">However, I don't recall seeing anywhere that they use many other parts of Sugar with the students. So the question could become: does Etoys need to be "packaged" with Sugar. </font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica; min-height: 14px;" class=""><font size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">Something to consider in answering the question is that Etoys is available in a very portable version as "Etoys to Go": <a href="http://www.squeakland.org/download/" class="">http://www.squeakland.org/download/</a> One nice feature about Etoys To Go is that you can put it on a thumb drive and move it from a Linux machine to a Windows machine to a Mac machine and the files will all be readable and usable! Also, it leaves nothing behind on the host machine. It is all on the usb drive!</font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica; min-height: 14px;" class=""><font size="3" class=""><br class=""></font></p><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">We can thank Bert Freudenberg for that! I'm adding him to this conversation so he might be able to give us an update on the latest news from Etoys… is a version for Android and/or IOS coming that would also be as portable as the current Etoys To Go? Universal portability would be a wonderful goal (for Sugar too)!</font></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Supporting all the different platforms natively is too much work given our limited resources. Something that could become the "universal" version is this browser-based version (but that too needs work to optimize performance, and support other browsers than Chrome):</div><div><br class=""></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/" class="">http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/</a></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="hmmessage"><div dir="ltr" class=""><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">Personally, like Sora, I have found the Etoys learning curve a bit steep. Once I did a workshop about Etoys To Go for a roomful of tech-saavy teachers. They just really didn't get it. I also tried to contribute to a project where some folks were making some science lessons in Etoys… but found it really difficult to get it to do what I wanted it too. </font></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Yep. Etoys was designed with extensive teacher training in mind, but that training never happened on a large scale. Scratch learned from that lesson, and while as a result it is not as powerful as Etoys, it is much more approachable and discoverable.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Btw, recently Tim Rowledge worked on the ARM version of Squeak for the Raspberry Pi, which both Etoys and Scratch benefit from. That should benefit the XO-4 too.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="hmmessage"><div dir="ltr" class=""><p style="font-family: Helvetica;" class=""><font size="3" class="">Yet, my favorite little ecology simulation is an Etoys featured project "Fish And Plankton". It is great fun to experiment with and can teach some powerful lessons! <a href="http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7303" class="">http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7303</a> Try letting it run overnight with different starting parameters and see what happens…. fun!</font></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Yes, that's a nice one. It even works in Etoys/JS (if you can wait long enough for it to finish loading):</div><div><a href="http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/#fullscreen=true&document=http://freudenbergs.de/bert/squeakjs/FishAndPlankton.017.pr" class="">http://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/etoys/#fullscreen=true&document=http://freudenbergs.de/bert/squeakjs/FishAndPlankton.017.pr</a></div><div><br class=""></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px;" class="">- Bert -</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 12px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="hmmessage"><div dir="ltr" class="">Caryl<br class=""><div class=""><hr id="stopSpelling" class="">Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 13:43:01 -0300<br class="">From: <a href="mailto:godiard@sugarlabs.org" class="">godiard@sugarlabs.org</a><br class="">To: <a href="mailto:sora@unleashkids.org" class="">sora@unleashkids.org</a><br class="">CC: <a href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" class="">iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>; <a href="mailto:tkkang@nurturingasia.com" class="">tkkang@nurturingasia.com</a>; <a href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" class="">tony_anderson@usa.net</a><br class="">Subject: Re: [IAEP] Future Direction<br class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><div class="ecxgmail_quote"><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><div class="ecxgmail_quote"><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="">If we abandon etoys to maintain compatibility with Fedora, what has the end-user gained?</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We (SugarLabs) don't abandon etoys to maintain compatibility with Fedora.</div><div class="">Fedora request a change on etoys, but Bert (who maintains etoys) is working for free,</div><div class="">then we can't force him to dedicate hours to work on that. </div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><div class="ecxgmail_quote"><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">Would a GSOC effort be better devoted to moving from Scratch 1 to Scratch 2 than rewriting imageviewer?</blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don't know. Scratch 2 use Flash and need Adobe Air, then we need check how works in the XOs.</div><div class="">I have read Scratch team is working in HTML5 version, that would be great.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">About rewrite imageviewer, if we want allow use Sugar to kids without XOs,we need move forward to HTML5/Js. </div><div class="">Maybe Image Viewer is not a prioritary activity,</div><div class="">but is a good task to introduce developers because is relatively easy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anyway the proposed tasks for GSoC are only a start, you can propose other, and we will need do a selection</div><div class="">when Google define how many projects will fund.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Gonzalo </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div> </div></div> <br class="">_______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org" class="">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" class="">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a></div> </div></div> </div></blockquote></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br class=""></body></html>