<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Ed,</span></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Thanks for your detailed comments to my message.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I´m afraid there are as many opinions on the subject of languages and translations as individuals on earth.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I don´t claim to have a solution.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">My opinion and suggestion come from the difference I note, between my times as a student and today.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Decades ago, college professors would recommend books, many of them in foreign languages.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">If they were in German or Russian they would warn us about the language.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">If they were in English, French or Italian they would just recommend the books without any comment.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">We assumed we had to read them. Period.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Today, most students make a big issue if you suggest they read something that is not in Spanish.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Now here and today, what is your specific recommendation about languages and translations in the elementary and high school XO environment?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Please consider we have a lot of people to reach with knowledge, not only young kids.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Also those kids today want to learn about the XO but tomorrow they will be working in many fields of activity. Living in a small country in a globalized world they will most probably have to deal with foreigners coming to Uruguay or travel to foreign countries. How would they handle then the language problem? Wouldn´t it be good if while they learn about the XO they could pick up a foreign language instead of using translations?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">How would you advise the many excellent middle aged uruguayan teachers who want to learn to write applications for the XO and know no other language than Spanish?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">How would you handle the same situation for young teachers?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">How do you propose to take advantage of the programs written in Nepal?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I heard your disagreement with several points.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I shouldn´t have expected anything different because I just offered one personal opinion, mine.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Now it would be nice to hear your positive suggestions.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Thanks.</span></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>Carlos Rabassa</div><div>Volunteer</div><div>Plan Ceibal Support Network</div><div>Montevideo, Uruguay</div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br><div><div>On Apr 12, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>2011/4/12 Carlos Rabassa <<a href="mailto:carnen@mac.com">carnen@mac.com</a>>:<br><blockquote type="cite">English translation follows Spanish original<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Gonzalo, Hernán, Ana,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">estoy parcialmente de acuerdo con cada uno de ustedes a pesar de que sus<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">opiniones parecen contradictorias.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Nos guste o no, el lenguaje de los programadores, desarrolladores y muchas<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">otras actividades en el campo de la informática, es el Inglés.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Negar este hecho es cerrarse las puertas y cerrárselas a los jóvenes<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">estudiantes, que tendrán dificultad para acceder a lo que se produce fuera<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">de Uruguay.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Son ideas que conducen a aislar el país en un mundo que, nos guste o no,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> es globalizado.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Pienso que los que desean estudiar informática en serio tienen que estudiar<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Inglés aún más en serio y muy rápido.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Traducir programas, manuales y otras cosas es necesario hoy, cuando muchos<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">no pueden leer el Inglés.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Pero esa ayuda tan interesante, útil y generosa, no es la solución del<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">problema básico.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Las traducciones las veo como las muletas que usan los que se rompieron una<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pierna.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">No se rehusan a ir a un hospital a que se la arreglen.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Tan pronto como pueden se hacen arreglar la pierna rota.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Usan las muletas nada más que mientras el arreglo que les hizo el médico en<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">el hospital surte su efecto y la pierna se les cura.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Y por el momento, hay que traducir, si deseamos que todos lean lo que<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">escribimos:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">English translation<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Gonzalo, Hernán, Ana,<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I partially agree with each one of you, although your opinions seem to<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">contradict each other.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Whether or not we like it, English is the language used by programmers,<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">developers and in many other areas of computer science.<br></span></font></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>Today. We are bringing up a generation of new programmers by means of<br>OLPC who will program in Spanish and in dozens of other languages.<br>There exist valuable educational programs from OLPC Nepal that have<br>not been translated to English, and there will be much more of this<br>problem.<br><br></span></font><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Denying this fact means closing the doors for us and for the young students.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"> They will have problems to reach resources from outside Uruguay.<br></span></font></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>Plan CEIBAL has produced a vast volume of materials not made available<br>in English.<br><br></span></font><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">These ideas lead to the isolation of our country in a world that, whether<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">or not we like it, is globalized.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I believe serious computer science students should study English even more<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">seriously and very fast.<br></span></font></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>True, but not relevant to the problems of localization and translation<br>for Sugar.<br><br></span></font><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Today it is necessary to translate programs, manuals and other materials,<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"> when many of us cannot read English.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">But this help, so interesting, useful and generous, is not the solution to<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">the basic problem.<br></span></font></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>Of course not. Is it not obvious that the solution involves teaching a<br>billion children at a time in any and every language that they<br>require? and that many of those children, as they learn other<br>languages, will have to take on the responsibility for translating<br>materials to the instructional languages of their countries, to the<br>official languages of their countries, and to the local languages of<br>their communities? For example, English is the language of instruction<br>in Kenya, Swahili the national language, and the Maa language of the<br>Maasai one of many local languages.<br><br></span></font><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I visualize translations as the crutches used by those who had a fractured<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">leg.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">They do not refuse going to a hospital and having it fixed.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">They get it fixed as soon as they can.<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">They only use the crutches while the repair made by the doctor at the<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">hospital, goes through its process and the leg heals.<br></span></font></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>Your simile falls down. Our children did not break their legs. In<br>fact, preschool children can become fluent in a new language in a few<br>months, as I observed an immigrant friend do in kindergarten. Our<br>problem is that we wait too long to begin teaching them, and do not<br>immerse them in the new language when we start.<br><br></span></font><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">For the time being, translate we must, if we expect everyone to read what<br></span></font></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">we write:<br></span></font></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>And forever. Once we succeed in teaching children to learn and to work<br>in hundreds of languages, we will still have to translate those new<br>materials to all languages required.<br><br>English is not the issue. Having 6,909 documented languages in the<br>world is the issue. (<a href="http://ethnologue.com">ethnologue.com</a>)<br><br>Note: I am among a number of people organizing translation projects<br>for Sugar software and for digital textbook replacements, at FLOSS<br>Manuals, Sugar Labs, and elsewhere. We are emphasizing Spanish to<br>start with, but will branch out widely as fast as we can. I would be<br>happy to arrange for hosting Spanish-to-English-to other languages<br>projects at Sugar Labs.<br></span></font><br><blockquote type="cite">Carlos Rabassa<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Volunteer<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Plan Ceibal Support Network<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Montevideo, Uruguay<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 12, 2011, at 1:42 AM, ana.cichero wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Qué opinión curiosa....<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Te cuento una experiencia, 1er año liceo 2010 centro de Montevideo ( 12, 13,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">14 años), vienen los estudiantes de ingeniería ( alumnos de gabriel eirea )<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">en tarea de extensión a darnos clase de python. En mis grupos decidimos<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">analizar el ejemplo de guess a number del pippy y representarlo, un chico<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">era el counter, otro la compu y otro el usuario. ( teniamos solo 90 minutos<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">en total)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hubo gran dificultad en enteder las palabras: red, black, blue.....<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Imaginarse el resto de los textos en inglé !! Hay que hacer buenas<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">actividades para aprender inglés, pero hay que traducir sugar en mi opinión.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">En concreto de Pippy(los relativos a matemática o funciones) tengo los<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ejemplos con los printy en general lo necesario para que se entienda ya<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">traducido. Los mando a quien se haga cargo del tema.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----LLeva mucho trabajo-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">El manual de Sugar que me ocupa ( y que pensaba terminar a fin de abril) ,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">va por la mitad-1.... y creo que pronto voy a tener que poner una pausa de<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">un par de meses por motivos de trabajos nuevos:)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">copio acá el ejemplo guess tal y como se carga en una xo configurada con<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">español como idioma, saludos !<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">import random<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">import pippy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">R = random.randrange(1,100)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">print "Guess a number between 1 and 100!"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">N = input("Enter a number: ")<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">i=1<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">while (N!=R):<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">if N>R:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pippy.console.red()<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">print "Too big... try again"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">else:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pippy.console.blue()<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">print "Too small.. try again"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pippy.console.black()<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">N = input("Enter a number: ")<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">i=i+1<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">print "You got it in", i, "tries"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">En concreto de Pippy tengo ejemplos donde los print están traducidos y en<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">general lo necesario para que se entienda.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2011/2/10 Hernan Pachas <<a href="mailto:hernan.pachas@gmail.com">hernan.pachas@gmail.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sugar no debe tener traducción (es mi opinión).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">---hernan<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">2011/2/10 Gonzalo Odiard <<a href="mailto:gonzalo@laptop.org">gonzalo@laptop.org</a>>:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Otro tema que deberiamos acordar es la traduccion de Sugar a "Azucar".<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Creo que no debería hacerse, pero me gustaría acordarlo con quienes han<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hecho la traducción en primer lugar.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gonzalo<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Localization mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Localization@lists.laptop.org">Localization@lists.laptop.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Lista olpc-Sur<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:olpc-Sur@lists.laptop.org">olpc-Sur@lists.laptop.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Lista olpc-Sur<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:olpc-Sur@lists.laptop.org">olpc-Sur@lists.laptop.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br>-- <br>Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin<br>Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.<br>The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.<br><a href="http://www.earthtreasury.org/">http://www.earthtreasury.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>