<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <<a href="mailto:tomeu@sugarlabs.org">tomeu@sugarlabs.org</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <div class="im">On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 14:12, Walter Bender<<a href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com">walter.bender@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > I am not sure that voting is necessary. Reporting of any sort is the > number-one priority. </div>Ok, but how can I tackle first what is important for deployments? I might be fixing what they don't care about and not fixing what they really care. </blockquote><div> </div><div>I agree with Tomeu, I think its important to know what issues are annoying a lot of people. One thing I like about GetSatisfaction is making it easy to "vote" for problems. Whether we go with that solution or another I'd like to have a feature where its easy, and reasonably anonymous to give a +1. I don't think it has to be totally anonymous but I think a lot of people will not do it on a big mailing list like IEAP because they don't want to bother people with another email, or some other variant of shyness. </div> <div> </div><div>My theory is to engage more teachers we need to provide fast, easy and shyness resistant ways to start communicating with us and let people take their time in moving towards moving from lurking to public engagement.</div> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> Regards, Tomeu <div><div></div><div class="h5"> > -walter > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Tomeu Vizoso<<a href="mailto:tomeu@sugarlabs.org">tomeu@sugarlabs.org</a>> wrote: >> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 23:28, Greg Smith<<a href="mailto:gregsmithpm@gmail.com">gregsmithpm@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >>> Hi David, >>> >>> That would be a big help. I am way behind reading the list and working on bugs. >>> >>> I appreciate any help you can give filing bugs based on the reports. >>> GPA in the keyword field will let me query them later. >>> >>> I plan to do a full clean up of all GPA found issues some time in the >>> last two weeks of August. >>> >>> In terms of the next Sugar release, can anyone help me identify >>> features or bug fixes which address issues raised at GPA? e.g. are >>> there any use cases or work flows which will be improved by the new >>> Toolbar? >> >> Any thoughts about how we could let each deployment express their >> urgency for bugs and features? Would be kind of similar to voting, but >> it should be clear which deployments voted for a given ticket. >> >> This could help prioritizing, may motivate volunteers, may help >> further involving deployments, etc >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Greg S >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:56 PM, David Farning<<a href="mailto:dfarning@sugarlabs.org">dfarning@sugarlabs.org</a>> wrote: >>>> Greg, >>>> >>>> How have you been doing turning these reports in bug reports for the >>>> development side of the project? If you would like, I can start >>>> working through your reports turning them into bug reports with a >>>> keyword such as GPA. >>>> >>>> david >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Greg Smith<<a href="mailto:gregsmithpm@gmail.com">gregsmithpm@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> Here are my notes from the last class at Gardner public school on August 5. >>>>> >>>>> Caroline, Bill, Anurag and I had a class with 9 x 3rd graders. >>>>> Caroline led the class. >>>>> >>>>> Caroline introduced the class and saying we could not finish making >>>>> the games but we would try to make the computer talk and the kids >>>>> would take the USB sticks home today. >>>>> >>>>> She asked who has computers at home and everyone raised their hand. >>>>> Then she asked what was the "coolest" thing they had done and what was >>>>> the most challenging. Three kids answered: >>>>> 1 - >>>>> coolest: making your own memorize game >>>>> most challenging: playing Conozco Uruguay in Spanish as some kids >>>>> didn't know Spanish >>>>> >>>>> 2 - >>>>> Coolest: painting your own pictures. >>>>> Most challenging: getting pictures from the internet >>>>> >>>>> 3 - >>>>> coolest and most challenging were the same: playing maze game. >>>>> >>>>> Caroline then showed the kdis how to put a CD in and the USB stick >>>>> then reboot to bring up sugar. Kids went to the computers and that >>>>> went well. 4/5 kids got the USB in OK. 1/5 had trouble connecting it >>>>> and asked for help. >>>>> >>>>> Back on the carpet Caroline explained the Home list view and how you >>>>> can flag activities there to show in the Home circle view. Then she >>>>> asked the kids to try that and to try playing some of the games. She >>>>> showed the physics game and the kids "oohed" at that. >>>>> >>>>> Many kids had trouble finding the list view, understanding how to >>>>> click the star to pick activities and most difficult was to get back >>>>> to circle home view. See UI comments at the end for more, in short >>>>> they usually missed the need to click on the dot within circle icon in >>>>> the upper right from the Home|List view. >>>>> >>>>> Several kids really wanted to play Maze but the scale was wrong and >>>>> they couldn't. Same problem for Physics. In both cases, a part of the >>>>> app was off screen. We definitely need a "screen resolution" option. >>>>> >>>>> They tried Speak. In most cases they didn't hear it (possibly more >>>>> debugging data later from the team). It worked for one or two kids and >>>>> for one it was crashing the OS and needing reboot after working a >>>>> while. >>>>> >>>>> We showed them Mama media stick builder, cartoon builder, solitaire >>>>> bounce a bunch of other games. They seemed to like them but often ran >>>>> out of patience or wanted to be shown what to do. Some kids decided to >>>>> try to chat. They needed instructions on how to connect with each >>>>> other (more below) but liked that once it was up. >>>>> >>>>> Back on the carpet, Caroline explained how to go to Sugar activities >>>>> page and download new activities with the Implode game as an example. >>>>> >>>>> Kids really wanted to play Scary Maze >>>>> (<a href="http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=scary+maze+game+3&aq=0&oq=scary+maze+game+&aqi=g10&fp=flbC24gbdiA" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=scary+maze+game+3&aq=0&oq=scary+maze+game+&aqi=g10&fp=flbC24gbdiA</a>) >>>>> but we said that wasn't available. I tried it via Flash later and it >>>>> worked fine but I wasn't sure its really kid appropriate. I realized >>>>> that they probably like it because of the adrenalin rush at being >>>>> scared when you make a small mistake. I think Nintendo 64, Game Boy >>>>> and other popular younger kid games also benefit from provoking the >>>>> adrenalin response. I think Sugar could use more adrenalin provoking >>>>> games.... >>>>> >>>>> Many kids needed help launching Browse and finding the sugar home >>>>> page. BTW often they ask for help because someone is there to help. If >>>>> no one was there they would probably soldier on themselves. >>>>> >>>>> On activities page they tried to find Pacman to no avail. We also >>>>> found Gcompris maze games which they liked. Implode,Gcompris chess, >>>>> and bounce were also popular. >>>>> >>>>> Caroline then exhorted them to wait until the computer shuts down >>>>> before taking out USB. Then they each took a boot helper CD and USB >>>>> stick and the class was over. >>>>> >>>>> We debriefed mostly on UI suggestions and areas which were hard for >>>>> the kids. Not order comments: >>>>> >>>>> - Drop down menus don't show fast enough. In general kids need some >>>>> kind of feedback on each click on when waiting (e.g. hour glass >>>>> cursor). This was most apparent when trying to shut down activities >>>>> because too many are running. I watched a kid do this by opening the >>>>> frame, clicking on the activity, waiting for the drop down, choosing >>>>> stop from that, then clicking the check mark in the Name This Journal >>>>> entry popup. He had about 6 activities open and it took him about 10 >>>>> minutes to close them, mostly because he kept looking at what the next >>>>> kid over was doing while he waited for the menu to show. Also, the >>>>> check box to close Journal naming dialog was not obvious and in >>>>> general not needed. Possible improvement would be to make that an "X" >>>>> and to not even show it when someone closes from the frame or home >>>>> view and the activity has not changed since the last save/keep. >>>>> >>>>> - When downloading new activities the count down was not always enough >>>>> feedback that the computer is "working". Also, if you don't click "OK" >>>>> and just download another file next, the original OK dialog/bar stays >>>>> there waiting until its gets its OK click. >>>>> >>>>> - Bill mentioned that the names of "things" often includes the file >>>>> name or other data when it would be better to see a more human useful >>>>> name. One example is when they opened Turtle Art examples they read >>>>> the name <a href="http://nnnn.sa" target="_blank">nnnn.sa</a> by pronouncing the extension. Seems related also to >>>>> my comment about how hard it is to find journal entries because the >>>>> full URL is listed first. >>>>> >>>>> - Maze and physics were to big to fit on the screen. Not sure if that >>>>> is a problem of the actitvity itself, but a screen resolution changing >>>>> tool would be useful. This is important on SoaS when it wasn't so hot >>>>> on XO. >>>>> >>>>> - Gcompris chess didn't save/keep when clicking the stop button. >>>>> >>>>> - When trying to chat kids instinct was to have both kids open chat. >>>>> The way you must do it is to have one open chat then choose share with >>>>> my neighborhood. Kids needed to be shown where share with my >>>>> neighborhood drop down is. Most kids I saw clicked on the text "share >>>>> with". Its not clear enough that the oblong oval (rounded rectangle?) >>>>> next to that is a drop down list. They needed to be reminded to go to >>>>> the Neighborhood view. Once there they often clicked on the XO icon >>>>> above the chat icon. You need to click on the chat icon itself and >>>>> that's a consistent misconception. One kid asked for "emoticons" and >>>>> other images to put in the chat. Caroline thought that it would be >>>>> wise to allow kids to open chat then see what other chats are shared >>>>> or available from within the activity. >>>>> >>>>> - Activities search tool on Sugar home page was a little troublesome >>>>> in two main ways: 1) hard to go back to start a new search after >>>>> digging a few clicks in. Back button works but would be nice to have a >>>>> "new search" link. 2) Hard to see a a list of all activities. Search >>>>> with blank text does it but not sure any kids would try that. Also, we >>>>> believe that there are some activities on OLPC wiki which are not on >>>>> the Sugar list (e.g. pacman and some eToys examples). >>>>> >>>>> - Switching from list view to circle view was not clear. Here's the >>>>> click order as it stands now: >>>>> 1 -- Start at home|circle >>>>> 2 -- Click list view >>>>> 3 -- star/select activities >>>>> 4 -- Click circle view icon >>>>> >>>>> Its step 4 that's problematic. Instinct when on list view and wanting >>>>> to see the circle is to click the dot within circle icon (F3). That >>>>> just leaves you at List|Home view. Most everyone ran in to this. >>>>> Another challenge is that the icons for switching from list <-> circle >>>>> are in the upper right corner. So you often hit the frame which has a >>>>> nice circle icon on it (=F3). In general, way too many UI elements are >>>>> right near the corner which pops up the frame. >>>>> >>>>> - Kids consistently couldn't find the stop button. Either because it >>>>> was on a different tab or because the icon doesn't ring true. >>>>> >>>>> That's it! Thanks a lot to Caroline et al for the chance to see the SW >>>>> in action. >>>>> >>>>> I hope developers don't get too take it badly that there are lots of >>>>> "suggestions" or complaints. In general the SW is great, things go >>>>> well and its an awesome project. I just focus on continuous >>>>> improvement but ts nit meant as criticism. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Greg S >>>>> >>>>> BTW I am 1 - 2 weeks behind on reading the lists. CC me directly as >>>>> needed and I hope to catch up a little before the end of August. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >>>>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. >> What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David >> Farning >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a> > </div></div>-- <div><div></div><div class="h5">«Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline@SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax