I think you are both right.<div><br></div><div>Dennis, I definitely agree that having older students from Middle and High Schools going back to their elementary schools and helping to train teachers is a great strategy. We would love help in implementing that strategy. We are also talking about partnering with the National Center for Open Source in Education (NCOSE) on this strategy. Definitely need help if this is where you are passionate.</div> <div><br></div><div>This year we would love to have Middle and High School computer and community service clubs trying Sugar, creating videos, creating software, working with elementary school students and their old teachers!</div> <div><br></div><div>Dave, you are right too. We are no where near ready to be telling any teacher that they HAVE TO or even SHOULD use Sugar. We have tons of promise but right now we should be working with those teachers who already see that promise and want to partner with us to achieve it. </div> <div><br></div><div>My strategy and goal is to have 100% of the kids 5-12 using Sugar at home, in school and at out of school programs and day care. That requires significant teacher outreach, but not 100% of teachers.</div> <div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Caroline<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Dennis Daniels <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dennisgdaniels@gmail.com">dennisgdaniels@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Great in theory but I've used Moodle for over three years in public<br> and private schools.<br> <br> Teachers did not go to Moodle until the admins told them to(public<br> school: hand tied/ private school: use Moodle or your fired). We had a<br> teacher who fought using electronic attendance for a year! And the<br> admin(public school) could do nothing about it.<br> <br> There are over 6.4 million teachers in the US (2004 census)... the<br> number of Moodle users in the States?<br> <br> Teachers will not do anything differently unless admins and parents<br> tell them to... and even then Unions will ride in and say, "That's not<br> in the contract." I've seen it, I've heard it.<br> <br> To get change in the schools it is not going to come from the teachers.<br> <br> If SUGAR is going to work then it's going to come from the 'lucky'<br> kids showing off their cool Sugar projects, parents hearing/seeing<br> about it, going to the admins/ school boards, demanding change or<br> taking their kids to 'better' schools.<br> <br> with regards,<br> Dennis<br> <br> lost and found:<br> +15047567321<br> +18586833669<br> GoogleTalk: dennisgdaniels<br> skype : dennisdaniels<br> <br> <br> <br> EOF<br> <div><div></div><div class="h5"><br> <br> <br> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 15:22, David Farning<<a href="mailto:dfarning@sugarlabs.org">dfarning@sugarlabs.org</a>> wrote:<br> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Dennis Daniels<<a href="mailto:dennisgdaniels@gmail.com">dennisgdaniels@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> It was suggested that I post a link to my commentary about Sugar and<br> >> education to this list.<br> >> <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Education_Team#Commentary" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Education_Team#Commentary</a><br> >><br> >> A quick poll before I go on... how many actively participating<br> >> teachers on this list or the wiki? From what countries?<br> >> --------<br> >> The views expressed are my own and a byproduct of my energies to try<br> >> and get teachers to incorporate computers into their curriculum for<br> >> over four years. I built an LTSP lab sometime ago for my English<br> >> class(I'm a certified English teacher in California.)<br> >><br> >> That lab was an eye-opener for me.Though admins and parents and<br> >> students loved what was happening in the class, the improved scores,<br> >> the better writing, higher order thinking etc... _Not a single<br> >> teacher accepted my offer_ at my school, or any other!, to help them<br> >> get their own computer lab running. Admins couldn't convince OR force<br> >> teachers to take what was free e.g. my offer to help build the LTSP<br> >> labs.<br> >><br> >> Sugar will get very little traction in schools without a seriously<br> >> hard look at your biggest obstacle/opponent: the teachers.<br> ><br> > Moddle has a very effective method of dealing with reluctant teachers;<br> > they don't worry about them! Moodle works very hard to insure that<br> > Moodle is effective even if only one teacher in a school uses it.<br> > Then, they let the kids do the selling:) If 25 kids successfully used<br> > Moodle in the third grade, those 25 kids become 4th graders and bug<br> > their new teachers to use Moodle.<br> ><br> > david<br> ><br> >> I need help in getting Sugar to be cool for kids and the easiest way<br> >> _in my experience_ is to make it easy for kids to show off... make<br> >> screencasting a FUNCTIONING and EASY to USE tool that can be launched<br> >> from every activity.<br> >><br> >> Please, if you're going to flame back, try to attack the argument (and<br> >> parts of it may be flawed) and not me.<br> >><br> >> thanks,<br> >> Dennis<br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br> >> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br> >> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br> >><br> ><br> _______________________________________________<br> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Caroline Meeks<br>Solution Grove<br>Caroline@SolutionGrove.com<br> <br>617-500-3488 - Office<br>505-213-3268 - Fax<br> </div>