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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>Listen, I don't want to argue with Alan Kay.
Obviously I'm not as smart nor have I been at it as long as him (I googled him
and watched 3 different videos - amazing!). My job is to set the record
straight.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>1. "<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000
size=3>Tim Gallwey is one of the best teachers I've ever observed, and he had a
number of extremely effective techniques to help his students learn the real
deal very quickly (and almost none of these were direct instruction..."
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>I would be willing to bet $10 (I'm cheap, alright?)
that Mr. Gallwey has used the principles of Direct Instruction to teach.
I'd love to see Mr Gallwey teach a child with autism, developmental disability,
or speech/communication issue how to talk, ask questions, etc. without Direct
Instruction/Applied Behavior Analysis. About 1-3% of the educational
students have serious learning issues and about 17% have
undiagnosed "learning disabilities" that make these students fail
in current constructionist educational system. In all, there are an
average of 13% students in special ed, some of which are there simply because
they can't read. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>2. "<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000
size=3>At levels below these two, we are talking about areas of study that are
neither about literacy nor about mathematics, but something else. The something
else could be useful (for example, reading street signs and goods in stores, or
adding up simple sums)."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense. Below heady
levels of learning ARE the basics - arithmetic and literacy (learning to
read).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>3. "<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>
However, part of the real deal is being able to *do* the pursuits, not just know
something about them..."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>Direct Instruction and Applied Behavior Analysis
actually require the ability to generalize what you have learned to new
situations. The do not preclude activities to generalize concepts.
Often, however, activities are foregone due to time constraints - which is
unfortunate.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>If students are not generalizing, the "Analysis" part
should indicate "ooops, I messed up as a teacher." I've done it myself
when my son's therapists realized (to their surprise) that he forgot the
meaning of bigger and smaller. The items used to teach these concepts were
limited to one exemplar and it did not get generalized. We then moved the
program to a more natural environment (think Helen Keller going around and
touching things in the room) and voila, the problem was
solved.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>4. "<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000
size=3>My main complaint about most schooling processes whether official or
grassroots is that for a wide variety of reasons they settle for the "something
else" rather than try to find ways to help the students learn the real
deals."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>Yes, and watching kids struggle in class, say they are
stupid, practice avoidance behavior due curriculum and teacher aversions is NO
FUN. It is easily solvable by putting kids in appropriate curriculum that
lets them succeed. I saw it with my fourth graders (and some fifth) more
times than I care to admit in a short 12 week period. It was very sad so
see 2 out of 24 of my fourth grade students completely, 100%, illiterate
and about 20% illiterate enough to be unable to comprehend what they were
reading. And this was at the most elite school in the
town.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>I'm not religious about DI but I have to fight for it
everywhere to simply be considered, included, or even considered as an
option. In my state, constructivism is so rampant that when I mention DI I
get treated like the red headed step child. And so does the option of
Direct Instruction because, you see, the dirty little secret is that DI is not
really an option at all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=430540114-06052009>-Kathy</SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Alan
Kay<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 06, 2009 6:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Bill Kerr;
Walter Bender<BR><B>Cc:</B> iaep; Sugar-dev Devel;
community-news@lists.sugarlabs.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [IAEP] versus,
not<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<DIV>My take on this over the years has excluded labels and categories for a
variety of reasons.<BR><BR>But I do think thresholds are important for most
areas of learning. For example, at what level would an actually literate person
consider a high school graduate to be fluent in literate actions and thinking?
At what level would a mathematician consider a high school graduate fluent in
mathematical actions and thinking? This is very different from asking questions
about the level that a professional would need to attain. At levels below these
two, we are talking about areas of study that are neither about literacy nor
about mathematics, but something else. The something else could be useful (for
example, reading street signs and goods in stores, or adding up simple
sums).<BR><BR>My main complaint about most schooling processes whether official
or grassroots is that for a wide variety of reasons they settle for the
"something else" rather than try to find ways to help the students learn the
real deals.<BR><BR>If the real deals are chosen, then the interesting question
is what kinds of processes will work for what kinds of learners? If it is some
non-trivial percentage of direct instruction, then this is what should be done
(and depending on the learner, this percentage could range from 0% to a
surprisingly high number). However, part of the real deal is being able to *do*
the pursuits, not just know something about them, so all pedagogical approaches
will have to find ways to get learners to learn how to do what practitioners do
who above the two thresholds of "fluency" and "pro".<BR><BR>Tim Gallwey is one
of the best teachers I've ever observed, and he had a number of extremely
effective techniques to help his students learn the real deal very quickly (and
almost none of these were direct instruction -- partly because, as he liked to
say, "The parts of the brain that you need to do the learning very often don't
understand English!"). But if he could see that the student had gotten on a
track that couldn't be influenced by "guided discovery", then he would instantly
tell them to "do it this way". In other words, he was not religious about his
own very successful method, but instead did what his students individually
needed and that worked the best for them (which happened to be "learning by
doing").<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Alan<BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif"><BR>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif"><FONT
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<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Bill Kerr
<billkerr@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
Walter Bender <walter.bender@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> iaep <iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>;
Sugar-dev Devel <sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>;
community-news@lists.sugarlabs.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, May 4, 2009 5:20:50
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [IAEP] versus,
not<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Walter Bender <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com">walter.bender@gmail.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">===Sugar
Digest===<BR><BR>I encourage you to join two threads on the Education List
this week:<BR><SPAN><A
href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005382.html"
target=_blank>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005382.html</A>,
which</SPAN><BR>has boiled down to an instruction vs construction debate;
and<BR><SPAN><A
href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005342.html"
target=_blank>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005342.html</A>,
which</SPAN><BR>has boiled down to a debate of catering to local culture vs
the<BR>Enlightenment. I encourage you to join these discussions.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>Agree that these are important discussions <BR><BR>Need to
be careful about the use of the versus depiction of these discussions IMO, this
tempting shorthand can create the wrong impression<BR><BR>eg. I would see direct
instruction as a must for autistic children but don't see that it follows as a
general model for all education (special needs are special) or that we should
even think it is possible to have a correct general model. I don't think there
is one and good teachers swap between multiple models all the time.<BR><BR>no
one on this list has argued overtly against "the enlightenment" or that
local culture ought not to be taken into account, eg. Ties said "think
practical", the response was of the nature that our context demands we do <a
certain course of action><BR><BR><SPAN>however, I do think the roll back of
enlightenment principles is not well understood (<A
href="http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals"
target=_blank>http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals</A>) and that
a better understanding might persuade more people of the need to keep
searching and struggling for different ways to go against some of the tide
of local culture - there is a recent interesting comment thread on mark
guzdial's blog which is worth reading from this point of view <A
href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK3F4TMBURELZZK"
target=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK3F4TMBURELZZK</A>
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