<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=915165412-05052009>Bill, there is a difference between direct instruction and Direct Instruction.  The latter (big D big I) is usually based on SRA's products and outlined in the Direct Instruction Rubric.  Direct instruction (little d little i) is usually a general set of guidelines teachers use to directly instruction - to be a sage on the stage, to teach directly, to teach first then...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=915165412-05052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=915165412-05052009>I am only frustrated by SRA themselves.  The products are great and would be extremely useful in teaching but they have a copyright stranglehold.  If only I was an attorney and knew how to legally get around that....  Or if I could find the millions (billions?) to buy it for public domain use.  I'm telling you, people would have a fountain of curriculum they could use, morph, etc.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=915165412-05052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=915165412-05052009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=915165412-05052009>-Kathy</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill Kerr<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 04, 2009 9:47 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Kathy Pusztavari<BR><B>Cc:</B> iaep<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [IAEP] versus, not<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV>Kathy,<BR><BR>I haven't read the books you cite but I do as a teacher frequently use direct instruction.  That was strongly implied in my initial post. Nevertheless, I'm sure I could do it better. When I read your response my first thought was that you had not read my post carefully.<BR><BR>btw this discussion does mirror an earlier one b/w Patrick Suppes and Seymour Papert - well covered in Papert's 'The Childrens Machine' and Cynthia Solomon's 'Computer Environments for Children' <BR><BR>Both Suppes and Papert argued that computers could improve education but in different ways. Cynthia Solomon found that there was a greater need for direct instruction approaches in disadvantaged areas. But that did not make her a DI only advocate. My own experience in teaching in disadvantaged schools for the past dozen years is consistent with that.<BR><BR> <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Kathy Pusztavari <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kathy@kathyandcalvin.com">kathy@kathyandcalvin.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <DIV> <DIV class=im> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>"<FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>eg. I would see direct instruction as a must for autistic children but don't see that it follows as a general model for all education "</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>The problem is that at least 20% of our kids in the US qualify as either special ed or learning disabled in some form.  So you would be leaving out about 20% of the population (especially when teaching reading and math).</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>Math can be improved greatly through Direct Instruction.  If you have not taught Connecting Math Concepts and other non-DI curriculum, I would like to know why you would say such a thing.  DI would make most, if not all kids LIKE math at the early levels (Kindergarten - 8th grade).  It makes them succeed because it is mastery based.  If you want to see brilliant curriculum development, you should look at SRA DISTAR I & II, Connecting Math Concepts (A-F) and Essentials for Algebra.  </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>-Kathy</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR> <DIV lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org" target=_blank>iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org</A> [mailto:<A href="mailto:iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org" target=_blank>iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill Kerr<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 04, 2009 5:21 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Walter Bender<BR><B>Cc:</B> iaep; Sugar-dev Devel; <A href="mailto:community-news@lists.sugarlabs.org" target=_blank>community-news@lists.sugarlabs.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> [IAEP] versus, not<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=h5> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Walter Bender <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com" target=_blank>walter.bender@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">===Sugar Digest===<BR><BR>I encourage you to join two threads on the Education List this week:<BR><A href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005382.html" target=_blank>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005382.html</A>, which<BR>has boiled down to an instruction vs construction debate; and<BR><A href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005342.html" target=_blank>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-April/005342.html</A>, which<BR>has boiled down to a debate of catering to local culture vs the<BR>Enlightenment. I encourage you to join these discussions.</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>Agree that these are important discussions <BR><BR>Need to be careful about the use of the versus depiction of these discussions IMO, this tempting shorthand can create the wrong impression<BR><BR>eg. I would see direct instruction as a must for autistic children but don't see that it follows as a general model for all education (special needs are special) or that we should even think it is possible to have a correct general model. I don't think there is one and good teachers swap between multiple models all the time.<BR><BR>no one on this list has argued overtly against  "the enlightenment" or that local culture ought not to be taken into account, eg. Ties said "think practical", the response was of the nature that our context demands we do <a certain course of action><BR><BR>however, I do think the roll back of enlightenment principles is not well understood (<A href="http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals" target=_blank>http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals</A>) and that a  better understanding might persuade more people of the need to keep searching and struggling for different ways to go against some of  the tide of local culture - there is a recent interesting comment thread on mark guzdial's blog which is worth reading from this point of view <A href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK3F4TMBURELZZK" target=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK3F4TMBURELZZK</A> <BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>