I'm afraid I gave the impression to you that I think the wiki is a mess. I don't. It is really much better than w.l.o., and verging on "very useful"! But I do think we need to avoid the syndrome of "if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". The sentence I described screamed a special message in my ear, probably unjustified, based on over a year of the w.l.o being pointed to as the place for all sorts of things that were imho ill suited for a wiki. I would just like to see the sentence modified to say something like "The Sugar Labs wiki is where the community comes together to record informal documentation and decisions about developing and supporting the Sugar Learning Platform. " That way noone would be disappointed if what they wrote in the Talk page was not responded to in a very timely manner. <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 4:27 PM, David Farning <<a href="mailto:dfarning@sugarlabs.org">dfarning@sugarlabs.org</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Carol, Would you mind working with Fred on the wiki? You have made a lot of good suggestions. The tension I am seeing is that Sugar Labs Veterans, who feel comfortable editing the wiki, are immune to the mess. People coming to the wiki for the first time say 'what a mess', but don't feel comfortable changing things. thanks david <div class="im"> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche <<a href="mailto:cafl@msbit.com">cafl@msbit.com</a>> wrote: </div><div><div></div><div class="h5">> Sean, Wouldn't it be ok to merge "Bugs / Git / API / Buildbot" into > "Develop", and expand them when you get to the Develop page? > > Also, the language on the wiki home page makes it sound like communication > is done via the wiki. "The Sugar Labs wiki is where the community comes > together to develop and support the Sugar Learning Platform. " This isn't > really the case. IRC and mailing lists are far more useful places to "come > together". The wiki reflects community-generated documentation, it seems to > me. I have never (with one exception) had any response to something I > placed on the talk page on sugarlabs or olpc wiki, and it would be > frustrating for an unwary user to think there . Also, are the forums used? > It would seem that if we really do our work via the lists, we should make > the list archives prominent on the site and forget forums. > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Sean DALY <<a href="http://sdaly.be" target="_blank">sdaly.be</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> >> thanks Christian >> >> a related issue is our logo size and positioning which I would like to >> see left-justified (your suggestion of that for the press release was >> excellent) and... the Git size (bigger) rather than smaller, but i >> know you feel differently about that :-) >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >> <<a href="mailto:schmidt@pentagram.com">schmidt@pentagram.com</a>> wrote: >> > Hi Sean >> > >> > >> > Thanks for initiating this. I generally agree with the goals to unify >> > the >> > site through a single navbar, but am also concerned about visual >> > complexity. >> > The more we can consolidate navigation items, the better. I'll start >> > exploring visual treatments with the goal to find something that would >> > work >> > across all sites. That said, it may still be sensible to keep the intro >> > separate from the other sites, to direct people in a more focused way >> > towards only a few sections that we determine (as is currently the >> > case). >> > >> > >> > Christian >> > >> > >> > >> > On 3/26/09 5:41 PM, "Sean DALY" <<a href="http://sdaly.be" target="_blank">sdaly.be</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> > >> >> Here are some ideas for a harmonized navbar across our domains, for >> >> discussion and input please. >> >> >> >> By way of an anology, I would like that a visitor navigating between >> >> our welcoming reception area, our meeting room, our factory floor, our >> >> mailroom etc. always know where s/he is and how to get to another >> >> section and in particular the homepage: <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">www.sugarlabs.org</a>. >> >> >> >> I know that Christian wants to keep the navbar short in the intro >> >> section so it is unobtrusive... that Josh wants a friendly home for >> >> Activities not unlike Mozilla's addons... that our wiki mavens want >> >> their usual workspace without fuss and bother, that teachers need a >> >> super easy to use section, and so on. That said, I think we all want >> >> teachers, parents, funders, journalists, bug reporters, developers, >> >> and... , kids :-) to be able to visit and explore the richness of our >> >> site without getting lost. Because for them, there is "the Sugar Labs >> >> site" and not 9 separate sites. >> >> >> >> It is a measure of the labyrinthine nature of our site/sites that I >> >> discovered some sections today I hadn't suspected even existed, and >> >> these sections had no link to the main page or to each other. >> >> >> >> Linking our sections will raise the visibility of our site and its >> >> richness will show any visitor (as if there were a doubt) that our >> >> community is vibrant. >> >> >> >> So, here goes... let's start with the union of all the linked sections >> >> I can find for <a href="http://sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">sugarlabs.org</a>: >> >> >> >> Home >> >> Wiki >> >> Blog (or Planet) >> >> Lists >> >> Bugs >> >> Git >> >> Schools >> >> Activities >> >> Download >> >> People >> >> Donate >> >> API >> >> Buildbot >> >> Trees >> >> Indices >> >> Index >> >> Lounge (or Forums or Discussions) >> >> FAQ >> >> Press (or Contact) >> >> Register >> >> Help >> >> About >> >> Sitemap >> >> Login >> >> Search >> >> >> >> plus a missing one: >> >> Support/Feedback >> >> >> >> 26 candidates for a navbar! ...More complicated than I suspected. >> >> >> >> Some of these, in particular Search, are never identified as local to >> >> the section, sure to be confusing to the nontechnical visitor who just >> >> want to "search the Sugar Labs site". Not everyone knows the Google >> >> "site:<a href="http://sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">sugarlabs.org</a>" syntax :-) >> >> >> >> Others are on the same subject, but point to different places; for >> >> example, the Activities section of the intro is not yet well >> >> integrated with <a href="http://activities.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">activities.sugarlabs.org</a> and even points offsite, to >> >> the corresponding OLPC pages. >> >> >> >> I think we can agree that 25, or 20, or even 15 choices are too many. >> >> >> >> The traditional solution to this problem is two tiers: mouseover on >> >> the navbar reveals subchoices. >> >> >> >> The idea being to standardize a navbar like this at the top of every >> >> section, giving "random access" to any other section. >> >> >> >> For example, how about 9 main sections: >> >> >> >> *************************** >> >> Home >> >> >> >> Download >> >> >> >> Activities >> >> >> >> Schools >> >> >> >> Contributors >> >> Wiki / Bugs / Git / API / Buildbot / Translate / People / Planet >> >> >> >> Resources >> >> Documentation / FAQ / Mailing Lists / Community News / Index / Sitemap >> >> >> >> Search >> >> Wiki search / Bugs search / Schools search >> >> >> >> Contact >> >> Press / Forums / IRC / Support / Feedback >> >> >> >> Donate >> >> *************************** >> >> >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> >> thanks >> >> >> >> Sean >> >> Marketing Coordinator >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Simon Schampijer <<a href="mailto:simon@schampijer.de">simon@schampijer.de</a>> >> >> wrote: >> >>> Walter Bender wrote: >> >>>> If it is not already, I think we need to add tabbed browsing as an >> >>>> important 0.86 feature. We can certainly change the behavior of >> >>>> <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">www.sugarlabs.org</a>, but we cannot change the behavior of the web. >> >>> >> >>> We can't? Doh - it is for the kids! :) >> >>> >> >>> Yes - we need it only for 0.84. Please file a 0.86 enhancement bug >> >>> about >> >>> the tabbed browsing. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Simon >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Marketing mailing list >> >>> <a href="mailto:Marketing@lists.sugarlabs.org">Marketing@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >> >>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing</a> >> >>> >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Christian Marc Schmidt >> > >> > <a href="mailto:schmidt@pentagram.com">schmidt@pentagram.com</a> >> > >> > Pentagram Design, Inc. >> > 204 Fifth Avenue >> > New York, NY 10010 >> > 212/ 802 0248 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> > > > > -- > "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary > depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> > <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> > </div></div></blockquote></div> -- "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair