<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> Hi Bill <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Agree, many adults, who balk at compulsory censorship for adults, still think there is a place for protecting children <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I’m one of them<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> A while ago you could walk into any computer lab in our school and you may have found half of the kids playing a first person shooter; gunning down each other’s avatar in virtual space, with graphic kill effects<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Its an uncomfortable feeling when any spare time (or time that students choose to make spare) ends up being used like this - and as an educator responsible for the network, not one I was willing to promote (and not one I’d be keen to defend if parents had questioned it) <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> While we hadn’t installed any of this on the network, the issue was that the games could be run off USB sticks, and networked together nicely on that basis, even from the students restricted accounts (and I hope Sugar installation and network detection gets that easy)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> As a solution, we blocked executable files running off USBs…and I don’t think a single student has complained about losing any other functionality (we excepted the programming class who were building executables)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Booting into Sugar would still have worked though [as the blocking policy operated once the other OS had loaded] <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Another teacher friend downloaded a range of flash games so there were some valid alternatives if students did want that sort of passive distraction <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> My own interest is getting kids to take control, rather than play games…. I decompile some of the flash games and show them how to tweak parameters to change the effects etc - change the gravity in Dolphin Olympics; show them the maths behind the scenes here etc<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> my tangential comment on thin clients and censorship, is that there are valid issues here; and I don’t intend to have my own children, or students, trump me by quoting the UN rights of the child<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I don’t know of any school that would install pornography or graphic violence in the school library, or pre-install such on the local network, under the name of the rights of the child to access information <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Our own ideas of the high road and freedom don’t go there (at least, mine don’t) …- and so we shouldn’t be surprised if many want to influence childrens access to these resources on remote networks …possibly inconsistent to do otherwise <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Cheers<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Rob <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:iaep-bounces@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2008 11:21 AM To: Samuel Klein Cc: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; Paul T Subject: Re: [IAEP] Ncomputing and freedom of the child<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> tech considerations aside part of the appeal (in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">india</st1:place></st1:country-region> and elsewhere) would be control, the computers stay in the labs, don't go home where students can then surf for porn etc. we are in the middle of a mandatory adult internet censorship battle in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">australia</st1:place></st1:country-region> - enormous resistance and the government seems to be losing, thankfully however, I know many adult educators who don't support mandatory adult censorship but who nevertheless do advocate strongly that computers at home should not be in kids bedrooms, they should be in the lounge so that adults can constantly monitor their childrens surfing Not a practice that I supported for my own child and which I think goes counter to the UN Convention on the rights of the child:<o:p></o:p> <h4 style='margin-left:30.0pt'>Article 13<o:p></o:p></h4> <div style='margin-left:30.0pt'> 1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the child's choice. <a href="http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/k2crc.htm">http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/k2crc.htm</a><o:p></o:p> </div> neverthless, although we are winning the adult censorship battle in australia - thanks to great leadership by Electronic Frontiers Australia and ISPs like internode who have refused to participate in the phony trial - don't underestimate the argument of many adults who do not think that children should have genuine ownership of a personal computer - and all the benefits that brings - due to the alleged risks of surfing the internet without close and constant supervision even some australian child care organisations are now coming out and opposing Conroy's digital counter revolution (play on Rudd governments election promise of a digital revolution with faster broadband and a laptop for every child years 9-12, still waiting and they won't be laptops) <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/technology/childrens-welfare-groups-slam-net-filters/2008/11/28/1227491813497.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1">http://www.theage.com.au/news/technology/childrens-welfare-groups-slam-net-filters/2008/11/28/1227491813497.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1</a> if n-computing works then its advocates would argue: 1) cheaper 2) more control over what kids see Not sure about the cost issue but on point (2) it looks like we are stuck with having to argue that freedom for children is a good thing, well, lets hope we can win that one :-) no point in taking the low road when the high road is the only available option <o:p></o:p> <div> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Samuel Klein <<a href="http://meta.sj">meta.sj</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com">gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p> Ncomputing is certainly not greener than using XOs, except perhaps for the part where you use computers in a comp. lab less than you use a portable laptop. But [no accounting] it's popular.  It lets you use existing monitor and sysadmin infrastructure.  And a skole/sugar or ubuntu/sugar setup that runs on Ncomputing labs would rock.  Someone should find out what they currently recommend for the user software stack in an NC lab. It can hardly compare with the sugar activity selection or unified experience. SJ<o:p></o:p> <div> <div> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM,  <<a href="mailto:forster@ozonline.com.au">forster@ozonline.com.au</a>> wrote: > We had a similar thin client system in the computer lab of an education conference recently. At least 2 of the sessions could not run as planned because the workstations did not have the functionality of a normal PC. In my case I needed 32M of video memory. > > The same criticism though could be made of any low cost system, there's lots of software you can't run on an OLPC. > > Their claim "since Ncomputing uses only 1 watt of energy (compared to 110 watts for a PC), electricity usage is cut by more than 90%" ignores the power in the monitor, maybe 100W. > > Similarly, the monitor cost may be similar to the cost of an OLPC. The OLPC and its competitors like the eee may be better value. > > >> I had a pissing match with their founder in the WSJ about a year >> ago... I didn't get any straight answers from him about costs or >> learning. But Sugar on their Ubuntu thin client sounds doable. >> >> -walter >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin@gmail.com">echerlin@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> > Has anybody evaluated Ncomputing's claims on cost, power, and the like >> > for school deployments? For example, >> > >> > <a href="http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Interview/Stephen_Dukker_CEO_Ncomputing/articleshow/3820649.cms" target="_blank">http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Interview/Stephen_Dukker_CEO_Ncomputing/articleshow/3820649.cms</a> >> > <a href="http://www.ncomputing.com/republic-of-macedonia.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.ncomputing.com/republic-of-macedonia.aspx</a> >> > >> > They run Ubuntu (or Windows) over thin clients, so they could run >> > Sugar once the packaging problems are fixed (The journal currently >> > saves precisely nothing). Has anybody talked with them? >> > >> > -- >> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name >> > And Children are my nation. >> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. >> > <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai</a> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> > <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >> > <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >> >> _____________________________________________________ >> This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line >> see <a href="http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning" target="_blank">http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning</a> > > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> > <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> > _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> </div> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. 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