<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Christoph, Why you say that there are million other projects competing for that money? It is supposed, I have saw the budget approval by the congress, that Peruvian Goverment has pay for the computers. Are they "under the value" and OLPC is spending more money than the US$180 value on each one? Answering your question: I doubt that the Ministry of Education (or anyone) will evaluate the impact of the current deployment. Not in a technical way. Why? Because I think they will be more than happy to say to the media that "240,000 laptops" have been bought by the goverment for the poor children in Peru. Photos, newspapers, and that will be all. Develop a study to measure the impact cost money, and can bring some "not so good news".. it is a possibility. I don't think that is the job of a "normal politician". And.. just to start to speak in a right way: you need to establish a "BASE LINE".. before you do any deployment, before you do any training, before you develop any pilot, before you move one pencil or speak one word in front of the general audience. No base line? Then you can do anything and say that it was a success. Here we can see that some people has think that this XO + Construccionism + Open Source + Sugar + Linux +... (many other ingredients) is the good formula to help the poorest children. Knowing poverty from first hand, and seeing how my own different groups of people (north, south, center people) is not the same, don't behave the same, don't think the same, don't need the same... then I wonder how the method to introduce this "SOLUTION" is just one. That is because we have not study the "BASE LINE" on each enviroment. If we should have done that in time, then we could realize that the kids in the peruvian jungle have a different reality than the kids on the high andes town, and the ones in the coast. A "MAP". I think there was a lack of accurate map. So measuring the impact, today, in the today's conditions, will be very hard (and very subjective) without a previous "base line". Don't take me wrong: those XOs will be useful. Oh yes! But the intended goals (of the OLPC) has been "wounded" because we have put "the wagon in front of the mules". Anyway, you can ask directly to the Minister of Education or Mr. Becerra or Mr.... ooppps well... other name.. those are the ones that know IF some measurement will be done and when. But... my guess is that there will be an "official" measurement and I have seen too many of them (paper doesn´t complain about nothing). Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru Christoph Derndorfer wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:482A05B1.1040809@student.tuwien.ac.at" type="cite">Javier, thanks a lot for that insight. The one thing that I've been asking for a long time (and I haven't been able to come up with a satisfactory answer) is if and how the Peruvian Ministry of Education is evaluating the impact of the current deployment. There must be someone there who is interested in understanding whether it's worth spending x amount of money on an OLPC initiative when there's a million other projects (other education efforts, salud, infrastructure. etc.) competing for that money. On a smaller scaler this is probably something that happened during the pilot that was going on since mid-2007... I'd appreciate any pointers from you (or others) about this. Thanks, Christoph <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@olpc-peru.info">info@olpc-peru.info</a> schrieb: <blockquote type="cite">Ivan et al, Just giving you plain info. In your essay you tell us... "As far as I know, there is no real study anywhere that demonstrates constructionism works at scale." I agree. But... there is a huge place to test how construccionism has work in the last 8 years: Peru. Las weekend I have been talking with my sister in law and another friend, both are teachers and have small kids in the school. One of them teach in top high school (rich schools) and the other in public schools (poor schools). Both told me the next: 8 years ago (aproximately) the peruvian goverment decide to follow the construccionist method for the education (here is as easy as one person in charge deciding this or that... then the whole system will move in that sense). They (the teachers) got order to take a special course about "new education methods" that was basically construccionism. The course was obligatory. Both teachers are from the coast and for the coast area (I don't have information about Andean teachers... but I suppose it must be the same because the education is managed as a whole system... it shouldn't be... but.. it is!). I can continue telling about all the questions that I have ask them (to my sister in law and other teacher) but it was a long 4 hours conversation and, of course, was not a scientific or statistical study. I don't have very clear IF the construccionism has bring good or bad for the teachers in Peru, but at least a huge group of peruvian teachers know what it is and they have been, in some way, trained to use it in the classroom. Knowing my country, and knowing my own people, I can guess that the theories of construccionism has not been well taught, deeply learned, or are in full use in my country. But... a statiscal work (taking aleatory data) could be done. The bad news are that our authorities take an exam (about general knowledge) to 180,000 teachers. Just 2,100 aproved the examination with the minimum qualification (11 points over a total of 20) and just 140 aproved with a note of 14 or more (over the 20 maximum points). So any study about construccionism should take note the "base" over what you are trying to develop construccionism. It can sound hard but I need to give you all the information (good or bad) so serious studies can be develop taken in account all the sides and happenings. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru Ivan Krstić wrote: <blockquote type="cite">On May 13, 2008, at 9:46 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Just make sure you read all the way through before trying to understand it. I needed to read it through twice as he is a very angry person and his anger seems to go at a lot of targets.. </blockquote> Do you feel that particular points were not properly supported or explained in the essay? -- Ivan Krstić <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu"><krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu></a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://radian.org">http://radian.org</a> _______________________________________________ Its.an.education.project mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Its.an.education.project@tema.lo-res.org">Its.an.education.project@tema.lo-res.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.lo-res.org/mailman/listinfo/its.an.education.project">http://lists.lo-res.org/mailman/listinfo/its.an.education.project</a> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1430 - Release Date: 5/13/2008 7:31 AM </blockquote> _______________________________________________ Its.an.education.project mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Its.an.education.project@tema.lo-res.org">Its.an.education.project@tema.lo-res.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.lo-res.org/mailman/listinfo/its.an.education.project">http://lists.lo-res.org/mailman/listinfo/its.an.education.project</a> </blockquote> </blockquote> </body> </html>