[IAEP] My problem with your OUI is that I can't see what problem it is solving.

[David Brown]

as i started sketching out a design of something a child could use with no
training and no need for a guru "Help Desk" by the side, i realised that
what i had would be equally useful for general use by anyone.

so i changed its name to OUI (Obvious User Interface) - it uses the
metaphor of a house of rooms within which named (and hence indexable) user
activities take place, instead of a desktop with folders of files on it
with an omnipotent file manager so you can mess up your data.

https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/oui.pdf

the metaphor is not a big deal in and of itself - it's just that OUI's
conceptual structure makes it obvious to any user what they can do with the
machine and how they can do it and where what they did before is; and it
helps them organise and name and hence find the information they create
themselves (their "works").   a teacher who wanted to monitor progress
could just look at the child's works

re diagram below, what i was thinking of was making OUI the sys ui.  [btw,
whereas a sugar "activity" is a single app (and its record), a OUI
"activity" is a named room (aka folder) containing artifacts (aka files)
produced so far with various tools (aka apps) - the artifacts represent the
current state of the activity].

               user
             /         \
            /           \
        sys ui     app ui    (each app has its own ui)
           |          /       \
           |         /         \
          user mgt       app
                \               /
                 \             /
                      os           (eg gnome or fedora or android)

Some screenshot mockups might help
>

to the user, OUI is just a menu - that's all you need!  every tool has its
own particular screen.  the menu can be slid out in any room to  show all
the tools and artifacts in that room and let you open side doors to the
"Library" and "Internet and People" rooms.

the Library, however, is a bit special:  there is still the problem that
Dewey, Yahoo and Google all attacked - that of indexing a repository of
information that other people have created in such a way that you can find
what kind of thing you are looking for easily.  "kind of thing" is the key
phrase here - you may no't know exactly what you want, you just know the
kind of things you like, but you also need your interloctor (the machine)
to make suggestions to you because there might be something there you would
like, if only you knew what it was called.

to my mind, Google has found the most practical approach even though it
turns up more advertisements about where one can buy information than
information itself (not to mention misinformation and disinformation) - but
that's the nature of the socio-political-economic system mankind lives in
and that's not going to change any time soon.

so i figure it would be good to be able to do a Google search of one's own
local data (particularly the tool collection) as well as having a
hierarchical file structure so one can directly relocate frequently-used
familiar things.

indexing-wise, words are our keys to meaning, but the range of things in
the real world is so vast and the range of the largest dictionary so small
by comparison that ambiguity is inevitable: a rose by any other name would
indeed smell as sweet, but there are all kinds of stinky things also called
roses out there:

"when i use a word", said Humpty-Dumpty in a scornful tone, "i use it to
mean what I want it to mean - neither more nor less"

- and that works well for personal hierarchical indexes!

PS constructivism can be applied within a syllabus as well as outside of
it.  i have no criticism of etoys, logo (aka turtle art) etc - quite the
opposite! they are among the first tools i would put in a OUI Library for
my own child to play with.   there are some pretty good apps
elsewhere<http://www.papert.org/>too.  It's just the sugar interface
to get to them and the other
educational content that i think can be improved upon... and i reckon that
the educational content should include stuff to directly support whatever
particular syllabus a school is using, so the xo and what you can do with
it becomes an integral part of the curriculum.

Hosting the document as a wiki rather than a pdf would aid community input.
>

there is a wiki on OUI here:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Design_Team/Proposals
the OUI design document is located separately because (a) its easier for me
to edit it with Libre Office than by using the wiki editor and (b) OUI is
not just about xo; it could work on any platform



On 13 September 2012 14:01, <forster at ozonline.com.au> wrote:

> Hi David
>
> You have written a wide ranging piece which is difficult for me to respond
> to comprehensively, please permit me to respond to just a few points.
>
> 1) Working against school systems
> Though Sugar/OLPC are unashamedly constructivist/constructionist, I don't
> think it is accurate to characterise them as "revolution (by working
> against them [school systems])", although comments like that may have been
> made at times by some.
>
> Constructiv(n)ist learning takes place within schools and continues
> outside of school. Many teachers and schools recognise its importance.
> Wanting schools to change their emphasis from instruction to more
> construction is evolutionary. Supporting the learning that takes place
> outside of school is not working against schools, its complimentary.
>
> 2) How to prevent/stem infection ... manage money
> This is the kind of stuff that the most constructionist Activities, Etoys,
> Scratch, TurtleArt, really excell at. Have a look at some of their
> simulations. I am not sure what you are criticising here in OLPC/Sugar, but
> if its constructionism, I think the criticism is not well founded
>
> 3) Proposed OUI
> I gather that you are not a supporter of the Home view and the tagged
> Journal. I have some reservations myself. It is limited in things like
> multiple file operations and mangling of file name extensions. The
> inclusion of Gnome in OLPC images is a good thing and neutralises my
> concerns about Sugar. Kids can migrate to Gnome once they become more
> sophisticated users, somewhere around the upper primary lower secondary
> years.
>
> I would like to see Sugar Activities able to run in Gnome and vice versa.
> As far as I know, TurtleArt is the only one that does both. There are
> excellent Sugar Activities that should not be restricted to just the Sugar
> desktop.
>
> When it comes to desktop metaphors, I don't much care. Kids are much less
> concerned with metaphors than we are, they will take an operating system as
> is. My problem with your OUI is that I can't see what problem it is
> solving. It may be better than the current Sugar desktop but I can't tell.
> Some screenshot mockups might help. Hosting the document as a wiki rather
> than a pdf would aid community input.
>
> Thanks
> Tony
>
>
> > i see that olpc is responding to consumer demand and putting android as
> > well as sugar on new xo3 machines.
> >
> > perhaps this will become gladiatorial combat in which one will die, or
> > perhaps it is an opportunity for conjugation by their respective
> developers
> > to give birth to a new generation of interface that possesses the best
> > features of each  ... it all depends on how the teams respond.
> >
> > presumably, the original intent of olpc was to facilitate education;
> > education in the broadest sense.
> >
> > there are two strategies for that: evolution (by working with school
> > systems) or revolution (by working against them).
> >
> > perhaps i am wrong, but it looks to me that sugar has followed the latter
> > route.  Papert's marvellous insights were seminal - and i seem to recall
> > that there was talk of a revolution in the classroom - but perhaps that
> was
> > just the heady language of the 1960s at work?  the electronic spreadsheet
> > was another seminal development - and even more far-reaching, for it was
> > the one that sparked the personal computer revolution in the first place,
> > and one that has stood the test of time so far.
> >
> > economic/social revolution worked in France, but its ideals never made it
> > into USA political consciousness, except in the mouths of a few sanguine
> > commentators like Noam Chomsky and less sanguine ones like Michael Moore.
> >
> > yet the computer revolution still hasn't made a major impact on
> education -
> > a minor one, to be sure, but the promise has yet to be fully realised.
>  it
> > is possible that the people who like making software, being computer
> > enthusiasts, forget that the average Joe child in whatever country has
> > other, more urgent, more visceral, more real-world needs than making
> > machines dance?  like knowing how to prevent/stem infection.  like
> knowing
> > how to manage money.  etc etc.  computers could help them learn these
> vital
> > things, if only that was where the technocrats' motivations lay...
> >
> > in the long run, evolution is more persistent than revolution.  empires,
> > having risen, eventually and fall.  but technology marches on and drags
> > humankind (sometimes kicking and screaming) into new ways of thinking
> about
> > things.
> >
> > an interface, like a human language, is a means to an end, but
> > (particularly in a monopoly market) there is always the risk of it
> becoming
> > political territory, as with the Academie Francaise for example, fighting
> > off the linguistic invasion of "l'Anglish".
> >
> > but if evolution is truly inevitable, might it not be better to go with
> it
> > than stick one's heels in against it?
> >
> > aside from the surface interface issues of whether one should point with
> a
> > finger or a mouse, or type on a screen or a keyboard (typing isn't going
> to
> > go away anytime soon as reliable AI aural comprehension is still a long
> way
> > off) - there are deeper issues; issues about the "deep interface" -
> issues
> > about how the interface provides access to function.  Google has found a
> > pretty good way of providing access to data - now users need one for
> > providing obvious access pathways to function too, to make machines truly
> > "user-friendly".
> >
> > and a means of facilitating collaboration:  if there is one still green
> > field waiting to be ploughed, it is the field of synchronous real-time
> > collaborative creative activity extending beyond mere chat.  user
> > collaboration takes place inside an application, but the screen
> management
> > and filesystem support engineering needs to provide the props for that to
> > occur smoothly, to assure data integrity, etc.  this is one of the stated
> > design goals of sugar; i don't know whether it is also a design goal of
> > android.
> >
> > below is one suggestion on how desktop and playground metaphors of
> > android/linux and sugar respectively could coalesce and evolve, so that
> the
> > user interface gets out of the user's way and becomes merely a means to
> the
> > end of facilitating interaction with the real educational (or other
> > functional) content instead of (as in the case of sugar) shouting about
> > itself in the user's face or (as in the case of linux) being awkwardly
> > troublesome for the non-geek:
> >
> > https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/oui.pdf
> > <div><span
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">i see
> that olpc is responding to consumer demand and putting android as well as
> sugar on new xo3 machines.</span><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">
> >
> > <br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">perhaps
> this will become gladiatorial combat in which one will die, or perhaps it
> is an opportunity for conjugation by their respective developers to give
> birth to a new generation of interface that possesses the best features of
> each  ... it all depends on how the teams respond.</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">presumably,
> the original intent of olpc was to facilitate education; education in the
> broadest sense.</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">there are
> two strategies for that: evolution (by working with school systems) or
> revolution (by working against them).</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">perhaps i
> am wrong, but it looks to me that sugar has followed the latter route.
>  Papert's marvellous insights were seminal - and i seem to recall that
> there was talk of a revolution in the classroom - but perhaps that was just
> the heady language of the 1960s at work?  the electronic spreadsheet was
> another seminal development - and even more far-reaching, for it was the
> one that sparked the personal computer revolution in the first place, and
> one that has stood the test of time so far.</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">economic/social
> revolution worked in France, but its ideals never made it into USA
> political consciousness, except in the mouths of a few sanguine
> commentators like Noam Chomsky and less sanguine ones like Michael
> Moore. </div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">yet the
> computer revolution still hasn't made a major impact on education - a minor
> one, to be sure, but the promise has yet to be fully realised.  it is
> possible that the people who like making software, being computer
> enthusiasts, forget that the average Joe child in whatever country has
> other, more urgent, more visceral, more real-world needs than making
> machines dance?  like knowing how to prevent/stem infection.  like knowing
> how to manage money.  etc etc.  computers could help them learn these vital
> things, if only that was where the technocrats' motivations lay...</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">in the
> long run, evolution is more persistent than revolution.  empires, having
> risen, eventually and fall.  but technology marches on and drags humankind
> (sometimes kicking and screaming) into new ways of thinking about
> things.</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">an
> interface, like a human language, is a means to an end, but (particularly
> in a monopoly market) there is always the risk of it becoming political
> territory, as with the Academie Francaise for example, fighting off the
> linguistic invasion of "l'Anglish".</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">but if
> evolution is truly inevitable, might it not be better to go with it than
> stick one's heels in against it?</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">aside
> from the surface interface issues of whether one should point with a finger
> or a mouse, or type on a screen or a keyboard (typing isn't going to go
> away anytime soon as reliable AI aural comprehension is still a long way
> off) - there are deeper issues; issues about the "deep interface" - issues
> about how the interface provides access to function.  Google has found a
> pretty good way of providing access to data - now users need one for
> providing obvious access pathways to function too, to make machines truly
> "user-friendly".</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">and a
> means of facilitating collaboration:  if there is one still green field
> waiting to be ploughed, it is the field of synchronous real-time
> collaborative creative activity extending beyond mere chat.  user
> collaboration takes place inside an application, but the screen management
> and filesystem support engineering needs to provide the props for that to
> occur smoothly, to assure data integrity, etc.  this is one of the stated
> design goals of sugar; i don't know whether it is also a design goal of
> android.</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">below is
> one suggestion on how desktop and playground metaphors of android/linux and
> sugar respectively could coalesce and evolve, so that the user interface
> gets out of the user's way and becomes merely a means to the end of
> facilitating interaction with the real educational (or other functional)
> content instead of (as in the case of sugar) shouting about itself in the
> user's face or (as in the case of linux) being awkwardly troublesome for
> the non-geek:</div>
> >
> > <div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><br></div><div
> style="vertical-align:baseline;margin:0px;border:0px;padding:0px"><a href="
> https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/oui.pdf"
> style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(102,17,204)"
> target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/oui.pdf</a></div>
> >
> >
> > </div>
> > _______________________________________________
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>


-- 
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