[IAEP] food for thought...

[Nicholas Doiron]

I can't speak for Alan, but I found their examples of unnecessary math to
have a lot of value in succeeding in any of those real-world / science
disciplines.  In particular, this quote:

"How often do most adults encounter a situation in which they need to
solve a quadratic equation? Do they need to know what constitutes a “group
of transformations” or a “complex number”?"

This reminds me of the rare homeschooling parents who say their kids will
learn algebra "if they need it" (
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/unschooling-homeschooling-book-tests-classes/story?id=10410867
).  Suppose you wanted to know something like - how far can I hit this
baseball, and how fast do I need to hit it for it to pass over a fence. 
Without basic algebra, you don't know it's even possible to solve these
problems.

And even if you can guarantee you're going into writing and don't need to
know math, how often do engineers need to know what a simile or a
preposition are?  Education is not on a need-to-know basis.

Regards,
Nick Doiron


On Thu, August 25, 2011 5:19 pm, Steve Thomas wrote:
> Alan,
>
>
> Okay, I'll bite, I can see how you believe the "standard curriculum" is
> way off, but what part of their proposed solution do you disagree with and
> where do you see as the preferred paths?"
>
> In particular in the article they state "*Science and math were
> originally discovered together, and they are best learned together now."
> which I assume you agree with based on past writings.*
>
> I can see how you might disagree that learning Latin has no value (I have
>  learned a lot from attempting to learn smalltalk).
>
> My fear in what the authors suggest is that the "real world" problems
> will be like what I saw in 1902 textbook Algebra Text by
> Milne<http://books.google.com/books?id=DhU4AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&d
> q=inauthor:%22William+James+Milne%22&hl=en&ei=27VWTvfzIqjd0QGLo6DRDA&sa=X
> &oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQuwUwBA#v=onepage&q
> &f=false>
> which I found in an ice cream shop on Cape Cod (I only go to the best ice
> cream shoppes ;)  The book was filled with "real world" problems (and
> little visualizations or age appropriate concrete tasks/objects kids could
> relate to) for ex: [image:
> books?id=DhU4AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA356&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U1k1CWXvlkhypOD
> oZuTWebG14bH1Q&ci=93%2C458%2C873%2C105&edge=0]
>
> I look forward to your response, the destruction of my existing beliefs
> and being freed to learn :)
>
> Stephen
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Alan Kay <alan.nemo at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Walter
>>
>>
>> As with a number of other issues in education, I strongly disagree with
>>  both of the main opposing sides. Both the standard curriculum, and
>> these guys, are way off IMO.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
>> *To:* iaep <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:47 AM
>> *Subject:* [IAEP] food for thought...
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/opinion/how-to-fix-our-math-education
>> .html?_r=1&ref=opinion
>>
>>
>> -walter
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>>
>>
>>
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