[IAEP] Sugar Labs Website Revamp IRC Meeting Notes 4-20-11

[John Tierney]

 Hello Community, 

Below are notes from IRC meeting about Sugar Website Revamp last Night-
This should bring community up to date on our progress.

Our Co-op students from RIT Mike Devine and JT Mengel could use community
help. They are in charge of collecting content for our lead designer Christian
Marc Schmidt to put in place.

We are looking for all Content Sugar-Videos, Tutorials, How To's, Case Studies,
Sugar Tips and Tricks, Anecdotes from Teachers in the Field, Sugar Research,
and any other cool things Sugar!!! Upon assessing what we have in place we
will be asking for the communities help(During month of May) in helping to make
some of these resources less technical in nature and classroom ready for Teachers.

Please send all content and resources with attachments to: mod1594 at rit.edu

Thank You in Advance!
John Tierney

P.S. Please make us aware of any Teacher's who might like to help Beta-test new site.

IRC #sugar-meeting Wed April 20th 2011
<christianmarcsch> hi everyone

* mikedevine (~Adium at province-wireless-173-84-27-172.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined #sugar-meeting

<JT4sugar> Hi Christian & Mike

<mikedevine> hey John

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, I think we are waiting on JT, Bernie, and Dogi although Dogi may be on

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: sounds good, i'll stand by

<mikedevine> JT texted me saying he's running a bit late

<JT4sugar> I spoke with Prof McEneaney today about Beta-testing site his PHD class begins May 3rd runs to June 16th he would like to make this part of class when do you think we could have site ready for some testing or get test materials into his hands?

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: i think that really depends largely on the content. the design is coming along, but i'm at a point where i really need to start working with some actual materials for placement.

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: in theory, june 16th sounds realistic though

<mikedevine> christian: i've slowly been adding content as i get it on the google docs. mostly images

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, June 16th is when his class ends-starts May 3rd. Do we think we will have anything to show community at Uruguay Summit May 5-8

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: again i'd need to turn to JT and Mike. we could certainly have design comps to show, but right now i'm still using lorem ipsum for placeholder and we don't yet have any imagery or other content

<christianmarcsch> i'll send out a link to the latest work

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, If content is coming in to slowly and will take longer to put in place I will let him know it looks like their would be chance to work with him in Fall

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: so far i actually don't have any content besides the images that mike sent two weeks ago

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: it's not important that we have everything now, but i was hoping at least for a few sample materials (case studies, etc.), as well as copy that needs to be written for the individual sections

<mikedevine> christian: yeah i haven't gotten any of that really

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i know you two were busy last week with the microsite

<JT4sugar> mikedevine, Any luck with content from pinging people through OLPC Map approach?

<mikedevine> yeah that's where io've gotten the most responses

<mikedevine> it's just tedious because it means emailing each marker on the map 1 by 1 lol

<mikedevine> most of the replies are offers to help rather than actual content, but i've gotten a bit

* dogi is cocking and locking only from time to time in the chat

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: that's a good start... could i suggest that we create a dropbox folder to store all the assets?

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: we can create subfolders for each content type

<mikedevine> well the google docs has that

<mikedevine> in the call for content section

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i think we should move the assets to dropbox, it will make it a lot easier to work

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: do you have an account?

<mikedevine> no not yet

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: why don't you go ahead and set one up--it's a great tool to have access to!

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i'll send out an invitation to a folder we can all use

<mikedevine> ok

<christianmarcsch> by the way, the latest comps are here:

<christianmarcsch> http://christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/

<christianmarcsch> i've cleaned them up a bit, still not 100% but getting there

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, What I think would be helpful would to see what we can put in place and come up with list of things we feel are missing. I can make that as part of my mission in Uruguay to tap community. I'm about 80% sure I'm going

<christianmarcsch> the templates are mostly worked out, though i'm missing the press page and the homepage, as well as any other unique pagetypes

* m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk

* m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: that sounds good. JT had a list of content types already, we can use that as a starting point to figure out what we need to gather. right now i think we are missing pretty much everything :)

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: do you actually have a link handy to JT's list?

<mikedevine> hm.. no i don't think so

<mikedevine> if he emailed it to me he would've forwarded it to you too

<christianmarcsch> can you open this link: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Amu-p6l9NyqkdFFzeGx1QV91c3dGVUFyX3ktQnhjeXc&hl=en&authkey=COeo2cQP#gid=0

<mikedevine> yeah i've got it

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: try opening the link i sent

<christianmarcsch> mikedeinve: great

<christianmarcsch> this is the spreadsheet JT put together

<christianmarcsch> not everything is accurate--i can highlight the main content areas now

<JT4sugar> Got it

<christianmarcsch> hmm, actually i think we should start a new doc

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: remember in the last call we said we should create a working document to start filling in all of the content for the site?

<mikedevine> wasn't that referring to the google docs?

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: either way--but i think we should have a working file that we can add text and images to

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i think i still have an example for the original OLPC website, 1sec

* m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i can

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i can't find it right now

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: but i can create a strawman for us

<mikedevine> what would the format be for something like that?

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, Do you see this as a place we need help from Infra guys(Bernie-Dogi) to set up things in GIT or elsewhere to work on mock site?

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: well, i think it is still a little early frankly, though it can't hurt to have that conversation. but to really know all the parameters we need the design to be locked, and the only way to get there is to have some sample content to work with.

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, Understand

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar, mikedevine: i just shared a strawman google doc, you'll find the link in your email

<mikedevine> ok

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, What is best method to place content Mike and JT have collected, pieces we take from old site, then decide what still needs to be created, and what pieces need to be updated, rewritten, made less technical

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: i think we should author each page inside this google document. we can put images etc. in the document for placement to have a sense of what each page would feel like. in addition, we should store the original image/video files in a dropbox folder. i'll create one now and send out an invitation.

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: are you able to view the document?

<mikedevine> yeah ive got it open

<JT4sugar> dogi, Do you see Sugar on a browser work as part of new website? If so are there technical issues to discuss with Christian? I know this might not be ready right away but would like as part of design if it will be in future

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar, mikedevine: I just shared a dropbox folder with a strawman folder structure to store assets in

<dogi> JT4sugar, yes it could be part of the new website ...

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, Setting up account

<dogi> but right now I m not near to be ready for endusers

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, Have you seen Dogi's Sugar in browser work?

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: no, not yet...

<dogi> seeing it more as a live show for certian activities ...

<JT4sugar> dogi, Can you share link with Christian so he can understand and help him think how it will fit into design when ready

<dogi> http://one.treehouse.su:443/vnc.html?host=one.treehouse.su&port=443&password=sugarbush

<dogi> for example

<christianmarcsch> dogi: wow! this is amazing!

<dogi> christianmarcsch, ty :)

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar, dogi: we definitely need to add this to the site!

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, Possible get to know Sugar tool along with possible training tool for activities with teachers

<mikedevine> maybe even a live demo of activities on the activitiers page

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: definitely

<mikedevine> at least in a more final versionn maybe

<christianmarcsch> dogi:  where is this being hosted? how would we allow people to set up an account to use this?

* bernie (~bernie at gateway/shell/sugarlabs.org/x-cbblbzzndlhdnahv) has joined #sugar-meeting

<bernie> sorry for being late

<dogi> christianmarcsch, right now it is all hosted on mit medialab infrastructure

<dogi> and on my devel machine dextra.treehouse.su

<JT4sugar> Hi Bernie

<christianmarcsch> bernie: hi, no worries

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: take another look at the google doc--i've filled in the section patterns a bit more

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: for example the "educational benefits" section

<dogi> right now I m working on something to make endusers (teachers) automatically able to access it but I have some problems which i need to solve there

<mikedevine> ah i see

<christianmarcsch> dogi: it's running a little slow on my end... will the performance get better?

<dogi> what I would like to have is an proposed frame for this sugar in the browser window ...

<mikedevine> sothisll be used in conjunction with the dropbox?

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: yes. the google document is for final text copy and for-placement images/video thumbnails. the dropbox folder is for the original assets (original sizes)

<mikedevine> ok

* bernie is reading the backlog

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: i can format the images as needed later on

<JT4sugar> dogi, When ready how do you see as part of website? It's own page? 

<mikedevine> so then i'll begin moving the items from the google docs into the dropbox

<christianmarcsch> mikedevine: that would be best i think

<dogi> JT4sugar, I think the box of sugar is able to be everywhere on the page

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: now that bernie is here, how do you want to start the "technical" conversation?

<JT4sugar> bernie, From infrastructure point of view do you have questions for Christian or RIT guys? 

<christianmarcsch> bernie: FYI, the latest comps are here: http://christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/

<christianmarcsch> bernie: very rough still, since we are missing content

<bernie> JT4sugar: i need some more time to read the backog before i can ask insightful questions :-)

<bernie> christianmarcsch: wow, the mock-ups look awesome!

<christianmarcsch> bernie: thanks! but they still need more work :)

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, While Bernie reads what are your thoughts on where Sugar in Browser might fit?

<bernie> christianmarcsch: one question for you would be: would you feel comfortable uploading the static web site using git? I can assist you on jabber or irc

<christianmarcsch> bernie: i can definitely try git

<christianmarcsch> bernie: question is whether we want to try to build the site in rails

<bernie> christianmarcsch: another question is: will the website be 100% static? (in the sense, no server-side stuff such as php, etc)

<christianmarcsch> bernie: right. static would be easiest, but we discussed possibly using the ruby on rails framework with database integration

<christianmarcsch> bernie: it depends on how much time we have in the end, and how much content there is

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: for sugar in a browser, i think we should have a link in the "about the software" section

<bernie> christianmarcsch: i'm not opposed to using a framework, but rails by itself doesn't do anything. we'd need to write a web application or install one a CRM of some kind (some of which are based on rails)

<bernie> christianmarcsch: sorry, I meant CMS, not CRM

<bernie> christianmarcsch: if we need to block on some developer to write the code, i'd start by deploying a 100% static website and then think of adding dynamic parts or import the content into a CMS.

<christianmarcsch> bernie: actually, ruby on rails provides a CMS as part of the framework

<christianmarcsch> bernie: http://rubyonrails.org/

<christianmarcsch> bernie: but we can definitely go static

<bernie> christianmarcsch: yes, i guess Rails can be seen as a CMS in itself, although a very low-level one: the available components need to be glued together with a little amount of code and templates...

<bernie> christianmarcsch: if we want non-programmers to maintain it, I'd recommend something like Drupal, which has an easy admin interface for a lot of things.

<christianmarcsch> bernie: that depends. i've actually written an admin tool using rails that can make updating content on the site very easy

<christianmarcsch> bernie: i haven't used drupal but we can certainly look into that if you think it makes sense

<bernie> christianmarcsch: ah, if you're already experienced with it, then it's the best choice for us

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, Will you put a place holder or note for Sugar in browser in "about the software" so we keep it in mind and put in place when ready 

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: will do

<bernie> christianmarcsch: what do you need me to deploy to get you started? just an empty rails app (rake init) ?

<christianmarcsch> bernie: yes, that would be great

<bernie> christianmarcsch: do you need shell access so you can run rake yourself and install gems etc?

<christianmarcsch> bernie: i believe so. are we running an apache server?

<dogi> christianmarcsch, one?

<dogi> sure :)

<christianmarcsch> dogi: oh... :)

* mchua_afk is now known as mchua

<dogi> I have heard that for development rake provides with a really powerfull ruby httpd

<christianmarcsch> dogi: oh really?

<christianmarcsch> dogi, bernie: just FYI, here is a site i deployed using rails: http://mondocane.com/

<christianmarcsch> dogi, bernie: it also has a custom admin tool that the store owners use to update the content

<JT4sugar> mikedevine, Is Ruby going to provide what we need for Teacher forums or do you guys have something else in mind to add in that capability

<bernie> christianmarcsch: i had seen this site, but i hadn't realized it was rails. cool.

<bernie> JT4sugar: i think it's better to build additional functionality using separate applications off the shelf

<christianmarcsch> bernie: +1. it may be tricky to integrate forums

<bernie> JT4sugar: there are plenty of good forum applications that we could install and skin so they look like they're integral part of our infrastructure and users can seamlessly switch from the website to the forums.

<bernie> christianmarcsch: to connect all web applications together, we use a navbar like Google.

<christianmarcsch> bernie: ?

<bernie> christianmarcsch: you can see it here:

<bernie> http://download.sugarlabs.org/

<bernie> http://chat.sugarlabs.org

<christianmarcsch> bernie: right, right

<christianmarcsch> bernie: though we might want to redesign it :)

<bernie> here too: http://git.sugarlabs.org/

<JT4sugar> bernie, Could you share with Mike and JT at RIT on forum applications you think will work well with our infrastructure so they can begin to play with and mock up some demos

<christianmarcsch> bernie: it's not consistent... is it hosted locally?

<bernie> christianmarcsch: sure, I think it should look better... and look the same on all sites

<bernie> christianmarcsch: currently, it looks bad on many sites, including the wiki and the bug tracker

<mikedevine> for the forums it's pretty much its own framework i believe

<bernie> JT4sugar, mikedevine: i have no personal experience running a forum, but phpBB is a very popular one: http://www.phpbb.com/

<mikedevine> yeah that's the one we were looking at

<dogi> bernie, +1

<bernie> mikedevine, JT4sugar: OLPC uses phpBB for their forums: http://en.forum.laptop.org/

<bernie> mikedevine, JT4sugar: OLPCnews uses something else, but it's proprietary

<christianmarcsch> folks, i'm going to have to leave soon...

<christianmarcsch> should we capture our "action items" moving forward?

<bernie> christianmarcsch: to answer your previous question: yes, it's hand-made in each web application we host... we need to find a better way to handle this

<christianmarcsch> bernie: i have old designs for a persistent navbar that we can bring back

<bernie> christianmarcsch: besides, we have too many links to list them all... so we tend to hide the developers' oriented links such as API and Patches in non-developers sites (wiki, chat...)

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, After Mike and JT move things to google doc and drop box what are key next steps and timeline you see

<bernie> christianmarcsch: can this navbar be tacked on existing web applications with minimal change to the code? currently, we have to hack the links into templates and skins in a very crude manner.

<christianmarcsch> bernie: i think we should treat the navbar as a separate project. could you own? then we can work together to figure out the information architecture and the design

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: starting with the content

<bernie> #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software_(PHP)

<bernie> #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_internet_forum_software_(other)

<bernie> christianmarcsch: sure, i can help by installing it in all apps

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar, mikedevine: we need a draft of all written content for the website in the google doc so that i can finalize the design.

<bernie> christianmarcsch: i've been wanting to do this for a long time, but I lacked the necessary web design skill

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar, mikedevine: it can still change later, but i need to be able to gage text length and general messaging

<bernie> christianmarcsch: another separate project for later would be skinning http://planet.sugarlabs.org/

<mikedevine> yeah i agree

<mikedevine> skinning should be something we keep in mind as we go about design

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar, mikedevine: the next step would be to gather all imagery and video material in the dropbox folder. not everything needs to be done, but let's aim to have at least 30% of all content there so i can get a sense of what the content will look and feel like to lock on the design

<mikedevine> to make it easier later

<mikedevine> ok sounds good

<JT4sugar> christianmarcsch, OK-Can you make log of this and send me email? 

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: sure

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: as far as other next steps, i'll keep working on the design, and bernie and i will discuss the persistent navbar. i'll do as much as i can in the meantime as mike and JT are gathering content.

<JT4sugar> Thanks-Will let you go. If we can have idea what we still might need by Summit that would be good place to ask community

<JT4sugar> Thanks everyone!!!

<christianmarcsch> JT4sugar: thanks! talk to you soon

<christianmarcsch> bernie: let's chat soon about the navbar. maybe start an email thread?

<bernie> christianmarcsch: sure, please cc me so i don't miss the thread

* mikedevine (~Adium at province-wireless-173-84-27-172.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net) has left #sugar-meeting

<bernie> christianmarcsch: if you use jabber (aka GTalk), you can also add me as a buddy. my ID is bernie at codewiz.org

<bernie> christianmarcsch: btw: a big THANK YOU for the great work you've done so far.

<christianmarcsch> bernie: thanks! i'll look for you on GTalk so we can figure out the navbar situation!






 		 	   		  
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