[IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

[Dr. Gerald Ardito]

Edward,

Sure thing. The citation for the dissertation would be:
Ardito, G. (2010). The shape of disruption: xo laptops in the fifth grade
classroom (Doctoral dissertation). Available from Pace University.

I hope my work will be of some service to your projects. Please let me know
if there is anything else I can do.

Best,
Gerald

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can we add your dissertation to the Bibliography?
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 19:31, Dr. Gerald Ardito
> <gerald.ardito at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Alan,
> >
> > First, I just want to clarify that I meant "challenged" in a positive
> way.
> > The 5th graders dove into Etoys first through painting, and then through
> > scripting. However, I agree with what you say about artifacts of a
> > pedagogical approach. We saw this, too.
> >
> > Our learning situation involved 4-6 student "experts" with whom I spent
> time
> > showing them the key elements of Etoys needed to begin the project. Then,
> > when we introduced this project to larger class, these "experts" were
> free
> > to move around the room helping other students.
>
> This is excellent information. I need to see how to integrate what you
> have found with my work on Discovery and The Undiscoverable. My notion
> had been to work out the constraints between Sugar features, and then
> a sequence of topics that would allow teachers to introduce one or two
> features per lesson. Your work may allow us to speed up the process
> considerably.
>
> > We found this model to be a good one for generating a very productive
> > classroom environment with the XOs (in fact, it was the topic of my
> > dissertation which I completed last May). However, I wished we had spent
> > more time with the scripting piece. We had not developed those skills
> > enough.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Gerald
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Alan Kay <alan.nemo at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd be curious to hear what the process is with the 5th graders. These
> >> were our main subjects. We worked only through regular classroom
> teachers
> >> (who had been carefully coached). You will not see any "challenged" 5th
> >> graders if you use a one on one session with them for about 20-30
> minutes.
> >> The best way to do this is to teach a few this way, and then use "a
> >> spreading wave" of one on ones. We found that this was much better with
> both
> >> children and adults than to try to teach all of them in mass.
> >>
> >> So you might be seeing artifacts of pedagogical approach here (and a lot
> >> of "challenged" students result from such artifacts).
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Dr. Gerald Ardito <gerald.ardito at gmail.com>
> >> To: Caroline Meeks <caroline at solutiongrove.com>
> >> Cc: Cherry Withers <cwithers at ekindling.org>; danielgastelu at yahoo.com.ar
> ;
> >> Tim McNamara <paperless at timmcnamara.co.nz>; Steve Thomas
> >> <stevesargon at gmail.com>; iaep <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> >> Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 2:29:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?
> >>
> >> Caroline,
> >>
> >> You are remembering well. And I agree with your hypothesis.
> >>
> >> The 5th graders took pretty well to Etoys. It is the drawing piece that
> >> hooks them, and then the scripting part that really challenges them. And
> the
> >> 7th and 8th graders love Scratch. It is interesting to me because they
> also
> >> do plenty of "painting" of sprites and backgrounds, but something about
> the
> >> bricks seems to match their thinking process.
> >>
> >> I am getting ready to introduce my current 7th grade classes to Scratch
> >> and am looking forward to that.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Gerald
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Caroline Meeks
> >> <caroline at solutiongrove.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Gerald did some interesting work last year introducing both Scratch and
> >>> eToys to 5th and 8th graders.
> >>> Gerald please correct me if I am misremembering.
> >>> I think the results were the 8th graders took to Scratch more and the
> 5th
> >>> graders took to eToys more.
> >>> Our hypothesis is that the first thing you do with eToys in draw and
> that
> >>> is very accessible to 5th graders. They can engage with the system
> before
> >>> they have to start understanding programming.
> >>> On the other hand 8th graders were directly ready to engage with
> >>> programming and had a easier/faster time picking that up with Scratch.
> >>> This is very much a hypothesis, not proven and not based on much data
> but
> >>> it would be interesting to explore further.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, I'll send it to you separately. Anybody else is still welcome to
> >>>> join in.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 20:47, Steve Thomas <stevesargon at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> > Edward,
> >>>> > Thanks, please send me the outline and what you think needs to be
> more
> >>>> > "easily discoverable" and I will work on it.
> >>>> > Stephen
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com
> >
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> It is true that you can do all of these things in EToys, if you
> know
> >>>> >> where to start. It is also true that the start screen of EToys
> could
> >>>> >> be improved by providing a path to each of them, and to other
> >>>> >> education modules, and Etoys could be improved with a few more
> >>>> >> introductory modules.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Since children and untrained teachers cannot be expected to
> discover
> >>>> >> these paths, and paths in other Activities, on their own, I am in
> the
> >>>> >> middle of writing a guide to Discovery on the XO. The starting
> point
> >>>> >> is my Wiki page,
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick
> >>>> >> The undiscoverable  is an unofficial FAQ for tips, tricks, and
> >>>> >> solutions to common problems that may otherwise be tricky to find.
> >>>> >> These are being considered for inclusion in the official SoaS
> >>>> >> documentation.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The Etoys section needs vast expansion. I have an outline in mind,
> >>>> >> which I can share with anybody who would like to work on it.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 15:59, Tim McNamara
> >>>> >> <paperless at timmcnamara.co.nz>
> >>>> >> wrote:
> >>>> >> > The analogy doesn't quite fit, as it's possible to do complex
> >>>> >> > things in
> >>>> >> > all
> >>>> >> > of those tools and it's easy to do simple things in EToys. Each
> >>>> >> > Activity
> >>>> >> > can
> >>>> >> > be used in this learning model, e.g. training wheels to
> motorbike.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Tim
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > On 25 September 2010 05:48, Cherry Withers <
> cwithers at ekindling.org>
> >>>> >> > wrote:
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >> >> And Scratch? ... don't remember where I read it,  but it sounded
> >>>> >> >> logical
> >>>> >> >> to me.
> >>>> >> >> Use progressively difficult tools for progressively difficult
> >>>> >> >> tasks.
> >>>> >> >> To confirm this statement,  I add the phrase: "Visible learning,
> >>>> >> >> invisible
> >>>> >> >> technology".
> >>>> >> >> Children would first learn TurtleArt.
> >>>> >> >> When they outgrow it switch to Scratch.
> >>>> >> >> When all its possibilities are exhausted, continue with eToys.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >>>> >> > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>>> >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> --
> >>>> >> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
> >>>> >> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
> >>>> >> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
> >>>> >> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >>>> >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>>> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
> >>>> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
> >>>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
> >>>> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Caroline Meeks
> >>> Solution Grove
> >>> Caroline at SolutionGrove.com
> >>>
> >>> 617-500-3488 - Office
> >>> 505-213-3268 - Fax
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>
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