[IAEP] Humane Reader is a $20 8-bit PC for TVs

[Jecel Assumpcao Jr.]

C. Scott Ananian wrote on Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:30:19 -0400
> Not even going into the "intangibles" (cost of money, packaging,
> shipping, distribution, overhead, support), the quoted cost doesn't
> include an SD card, a PS/2 keyboard, a 5V mini-USB power supply, or an
> AV cable.  It also seems to assume that you can just dip the thing in
> epoxy in lieu of a case.  The price also doesn't include the TV, but I
> think the idea is that the recipient already has one of those.

Exactly. And it has to be a relatively modern TV set at that, since only
in the mid 1990s did video-in connectors become popular. There are still
many sets out there which will require an RF modulator, which is a
significant extra for a $20 product. It also degrades the image
considerably, but this particular device has less resolution than the
original Apple II and would still be usable.

> The cost could be further improved by ditching the Atmel AVRs, which
> are very nice to program, but quite pricey -- especially if you need
> to use three (!).  Using a single more powerful chip would reduce
> cost.

That was my point - what is cute from a hobbiest viewpoint isn't what is
best for the users. It is fun to do video 100% in software on a very
limited processor, but the custom chip inside the $12 computer
implementing the NES sprites and fancy backgrounds is much cheaper. For
a TV based application, I bet a PlayStation 1 level graphics solution
would cost less than the AVR chip if done in a serious way.

> (For that matter -- he's using a PS/2 or USB keyboard, which already
> contain processors roughly comparable to the AVR.  A better hack would
> be to just reprogram that.)

That is likely to be a slow 8051 based processor - probably only 1/4 the
speed of the AVR. Lots of fun, though what I call "painful fun" like
booting a computer by flipping switches.

> ps. The presentation also disses PCB, whose autorouter I wrote, as
> unsophisticated. ;-)

I missed that part. The name "PCB" is a bit confusing, making it hard to
Google or discuss it. Was he talking about this particular application
or autorouters in general (which many people refuse to use)?

K. K. Subramaniam wrote on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:01:18 +0530
> On Wednesday 21 Jul 2010 5:06:14 am Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote:
> > The problem is the opposite - this thing at $20 is too expensive for
> > what it does. I enjoy minimal systems more than anybody else, but the
> > idea that poor people will be happy with this is just silly.
> I agree. Poor have other appropriate options. $20 will get them two solar 
> lanterns (www.dlightdesign.com) to help reading books at night.

Well, if they have a television then they have light to read with. So
this project isn't after the people for whom "the laptop screen is the
brightest light in the house at night".

> But innovations like these should not be judged purely on one aspect alone. 
> Every gadget can find a niche market. Say, a TV dealer may use this device to 
> attract customers.

Sure. My argument was that it is possible to make something that is both
better and cheaper. This would be better for both the intended audience
and the niche markets you mentioned.

Note that I understand that this project is about open source - so the
important thing is that anyone can do it themselves. Some of the stuff
that I mentioned that would be better isn't available except to large
companies. But at some point it isn't open anymore. Can you make your
own AVR processor? I would actually be happier with a custom chip built
from the Leon 3 or OpenRISC 1200 instead.

-- Jecel