[IAEP] SoaS as a Sugar Labs project.

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 20:58, Martin Langhoff<martin.langhoff at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:22 PM, David Farning<dfarning at sugarlabs.org> wrote:
>> Eclipse and Apache both have criteria for becoming a official
>
> Note that Apache's reason to run this "Apache Projects" is to _extend
> the legal protection shield to other projects_. If doesn't care one
> zot about what the resulting software _does_. And they only looked
> into that once they had their main mission (the webserver) pretty much
> cooked.
>
> I've advised several projects that wanted to "do like apache", and
> once they understood what apache does, they did not want to "do like
> apache" no more :-)
>
>
> And also... and completely from the outside... I'll apologise in
> advance for saying something I know might be controversial. I worry
> that SL seems to have -- for a external party like me -- more
> bureaucracy than it has people "doing". IMHExperience, the projects I
> enjoy working on, and that I see being productive have  a much lower
> "procedure/label/committe " : contributor ratio.
>
> Boards, subprojects and such are good things to remember to do when a
> project gets big and tensions surface (aside from some specific things
> you want "right" from the start -- license, etc).
>
> This comment is not meant as a trolling attempt (though I fear it'll
> end up in tears). The core of what I am trying to say is: doing these
> things too early has some risks -- just off the top of my head
>
>  - The FOSS version of being top-heavy, the distraction
>
>  - Newcomers reading all these big names (board, procedures, the board
> blessing the SIG) and getting the wrong idea about the project -- this
> can discourage the go-getters that like get-it-done environments.
>
>  - Fostering armchair quarterbackers (like yours truly right now :-/ )
> and endless bickering (hmm! debian-legal) -- these are attracted to
> "big name" and "big infra" projects.
>
> I really like GregDek's line:
>> I would avoid elections for as long as possible.  Vote with your work.
>
> Time for me to shut up. From now on I assume you know about these
> risks, and won't mention the topic in polite company no more. After
> all, I am not working my ass off on SL, you are.
>
> Thanks for your patience :-)

I think your concerns are reasonable, but as long as we keep being an
organization where people who want to do things are enabled to get
them done, I don't think we are in such a bad position.

If it comes the day when talkers remove power from doers, we'll need
to worry about what you warn, but fortunately I don't see that coming
any time soon.

I see these discussions about what you call bureaucracy as actually
fostering the doers, by giving their area of interest a concrete
visibility and telling them to chose their tools, procedures and
identity so they can better do their thing.

Regards,

Tomeu

>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langhoff at gmail.com
>  martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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«Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
Farning