[IAEP] is this useful feedback?

[Bill Kerr]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Bill Kerr <billkerr at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu at tomeuvizoso.net>wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Bill Kerr <billkerr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu at tomeuvizoso.net>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Bill Kerr <billkerr at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI
>> >> >
>> >> > is this useful feedback?
>> >>
>> >> I think it's useful in itself, but there needs to happen quite a bit
>> >> of work before it can be consumed by developers. I guess someone that
>> >> knows the context in which those comments are made could translate
>> >> them to more universally understandable statements, and then someone
>> >> else could aggregate those with other feedback and produce some
>> >> summary from all of that.
>> >>
>> >> > flux, year 10 student australia, has been slack in recording his
>> >> > criticisms
>> >> > (tends to mouth off with a negative but informed tone) but I sat with
>> >> > him
>> >> > and wrote them down myself, insisting on a bit more detail - he's one
>> of
>> >> > two
>> >> > students in the class who knows some linux (more than me) - he felt
>> the
>> >> > xo
>> >> > was lacking compared with other linux distributions
>> >> >
>> >> > XO DISLIKES
>> >> >
>> >> > Slow to load initially
>> >> > Loading (splash) screen for each activity is sad, dull, not worth it
>> >> > Games done cheaply compared with GNOME and KDE games
>> >> > mouse pointer is too big
>> >> > wants ability to replace XO icon with different icons
>> >> > wants ability to create a new background
>> >> > want fluxbox, a better GUI
>> >> >
>> >> > btw I have asked the class to try to put themselves, at least some of
>> >> > the
>> >> > time, into the shoes of a 6-10 yo child from the developing world
>> when
>> >> > providing feedback - but have also said that I want to hear
>>  negatives
>> >> > as
>> >> > well as positives
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure that's the best POV for useful feedback. I cannot think
>> >> myself of any features of Sugar that are specially targeted to people
>> >> in developing countries and I for one would like to see Sugar evolve
>> >> in an useful platform for all people independently of their age.
>> >>
>> >> If kids are complaining so much about the Sugar Shell means that they
>> >> are "seeing" it too much. Most of the important stuff should happen
>> >> inside activities, not in the Shell. My reaction to that feedback is
>> >> that Sugar should dissolve itself better into the set of installed
>> >> activities (by improving performance, for example) and that activities
>> >> should address better the kids' interests (so they don't need to
>> >> change the shell icons to get some fun).
>> >>
>> >> > (note the final para from death-god, he's not able to think outside
>> the
>> >> > MS
>> >> > paradigm at this point - I plan to do some more talking about these
>> >> > issues
>> >> > next term)
>> >> >
>> >> > one memory that this triggered in me was mark shuttleworths ubuntu
>> >> > manifesto:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/06/mark-shuttleworths-ubuntu-manifesto.html
>> >> > #13 "pretty" as a feature
>> >>
>> >> My suspect is that conventional desktops have a big dissonance with
>> >> non-office usage, so people spend more time that they would like to in
>> >> the "OS". Because of that, the desktop GUI is important for them and
>> >> they want it to be pretty. If we reduced the components that the user
>> >> needs to interact with, those eliminated components don't need to be
>> >> pretty any more. If we reduce the time that the user needs to spend on
>> >> the rest of the desktop, the importance of their "beauty" is also
>> >> reduced.
>> >>
>> >> Not saying that Mark is wrong nor that Sugar should be ugly, just that
>> >> when we hear that some part of the Sugar shell needs to look nicer or
>> >> be more like traditional desktops, we may want to reflect why is the
>> >> shell taking so much of the user attention and if this isn't an
>> >> opportunity to streamline the experience and take ourselves out of the
>> >> way.
>> >
>> > thanks for comment, Tomeu. I've put it up on the wiki and will attempt
>> to
>> > discuss these issues with the students when we go back to school
>> tomorrow.
>> > (we will have to get our minds back out of holiday mode first, however)
>> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI
>> >
>> > one thing I have noticed with students who use linux (only a handful at
>> my
>> > school) is that they like the ubuntu rotating cube, they see that as new
>> and
>> > "cool"
>> >
>> > My own thoughts are more in line with what you are saying, that the OS,
>> if
>> > we must have one, ought to be just a way to access the activities, that
>> > pretty is not important. But I do suspect strongly that to attract many
>> > users (who are used to Windows) it is important and that part of the
>> success
>> > of ubuntu is that MarkShuttleworth has picked up on that.
>>
>> Agreed, we don't want to sell an OS, but may be forced into that...
>>
>> No idea about what we can do there, other than hiring Apple's
>> marketing department :p
>
>
>
> I like walter's suggestions on this page:
> http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar
>
> tweaking the interface as an option - for both empowerment and skill
> building
>
> I'll give it a go but fear that most students won't have the patience or
> carefulness to hack the python code successfully, a few will give it a shot
> but many will be easily discouraged
> (trying to think of a way to make it a bit more accessible to more)
>


actually on a closer look walter's modifying sugar tutorial does provide
quite a few low level entry points into -
hacking
SVG
python
linux

that's a lot of pluses
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