[IAEP] is this useful feedback?

[Bill Kerr]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu at tomeuvizoso.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Bill Kerr <billkerr at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu at tomeuvizoso.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Bill Kerr <billkerr at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI
> >> >
> >> > is this useful feedback?
> >>
> >> I think it's useful in itself, but there needs to happen quite a bit
> >> of work before it can be consumed by developers. I guess someone that
> >> knows the context in which those comments are made could translate
> >> them to more universally understandable statements, and then someone
> >> else could aggregate those with other feedback and produce some
> >> summary from all of that.
> >>
> >> > flux, year 10 student australia, has been slack in recording his
> >> > criticisms
> >> > (tends to mouth off with a negative but informed tone) but I sat with
> >> > him
> >> > and wrote them down myself, insisting on a bit more detail - he's one
> of
> >> > two
> >> > students in the class who knows some linux (more than me) - he felt
> the
> >> > xo
> >> > was lacking compared with other linux distributions
> >> >
> >> > XO DISLIKES
> >> >
> >> > Slow to load initially
> >> > Loading (splash) screen for each activity is sad, dull, not worth it
> >> > Games done cheaply compared with GNOME and KDE games
> >> > mouse pointer is too big
> >> > wants ability to replace XO icon with different icons
> >> > wants ability to create a new background
> >> > want fluxbox, a better GUI
> >> >
> >> > btw I have asked the class to try to put themselves, at least some of
> >> > the
> >> > time, into the shoes of a 6-10 yo child from the developing world when
> >> > providing feedback - but have also said that I want to hear  negatives
> >> > as
> >> > well as positives
> >>
> >> I'm not sure that's the best POV for useful feedback. I cannot think
> >> myself of any features of Sugar that are specially targeted to people
> >> in developing countries and I for one would like to see Sugar evolve
> >> in an useful platform for all people independently of their age.
> >>
> >> If kids are complaining so much about the Sugar Shell means that they
> >> are "seeing" it too much. Most of the important stuff should happen
> >> inside activities, not in the Shell. My reaction to that feedback is
> >> that Sugar should dissolve itself better into the set of installed
> >> activities (by improving performance, for example) and that activities
> >> should address better the kids' interests (so they don't need to
> >> change the shell icons to get some fun).
> >>
> >> > (note the final para from death-god, he's not able to think outside
> the
> >> > MS
> >> > paradigm at this point - I plan to do some more talking about these
> >> > issues
> >> > next term)
> >> >
> >> > one memory that this triggered in me was mark shuttleworths ubuntu
> >> > manifesto:
> >> >
> >> >
> http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/06/mark-shuttleworths-ubuntu-manifesto.html
> >> > #13 "pretty" as a feature
> >>
> >> My suspect is that conventional desktops have a big dissonance with
> >> non-office usage, so people spend more time that they would like to in
> >> the "OS". Because of that, the desktop GUI is important for them and
> >> they want it to be pretty. If we reduced the components that the user
> >> needs to interact with, those eliminated components don't need to be
> >> pretty any more. If we reduce the time that the user needs to spend on
> >> the rest of the desktop, the importance of their "beauty" is also
> >> reduced.
> >>
> >> Not saying that Mark is wrong nor that Sugar should be ugly, just that
> >> when we hear that some part of the Sugar shell needs to look nicer or
> >> be more like traditional desktops, we may want to reflect why is the
> >> shell taking so much of the user attention and if this isn't an
> >> opportunity to streamline the experience and take ourselves out of the
> >> way.
> >
> > thanks for comment, Tomeu. I've put it up on the wiki and will attempt to
> > discuss these issues with the students when we go back to school
> tomorrow.
> > (we will have to get our minds back out of holiday mode first, however)
> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI
> >
> > one thing I have noticed with students who use linux (only a handful at
> my
> > school) is that they like the ubuntu rotating cube, they see that as new
> and
> > "cool"
> >
> > My own thoughts are more in line with what you are saying, that the OS,
> if
> > we must have one, ought to be just a way to access the activities, that
> > pretty is not important. But I do suspect strongly that to attract many
> > users (who are used to Windows) it is important and that part of the
> success
> > of ubuntu is that MarkShuttleworth has picked up on that.
>
> Agreed, we don't want to sell an OS, but may be forced into that...
>
> No idea about what we can do there, other than hiring Apple's
> marketing department :p



I like walter's suggestions on this page:
http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar

tweaking the interface as an option - for both empowerment and skill
building

I'll give it a go but fear that most students won't have the patience or
carefulness to hack the python code successfully, a few will give it a shot
but many will be easily discouraged
(trying to think of a way to make it a bit more accessible to more)
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