Electricity (was Re: The rest of the puzzle)

[Edward Cherlin]

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Yama Ploskonka <yama at netoso.com> wrote:
> Edward Cherlin wrote:
>> I am thinking now of potato power. I assume that there is in the
>> villages generally the knowledge, skill, and equipment for fermenting
>> potatoes and distilling the resulting alcohol/water/plant residue mix
>> into 95% ethanol. It is my impression that the uplands of Perú are
>> excellent potato-growing areas. Hm, yes, potatoes originated in Perú,
>> which has more than 3,000 varieties. I'll need to know the market
>> price of potatoes in the villages, and the cost of the resulting
>> ethanol. We will have to help to get the ethanol from the vodka level
>> to the fuel level. Well, this
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_purification
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_purification> will do to get the
>> conversation started.
>
> You know, it's better business to do so for the vodka, and then use that
> money to buy gasoline.  One little problem, producers might drink that
> vodka.  That is why producing your own ethanol is illegal in most places
> of the world, the government wants taxes on it.  So OK, you make a law
> that people can make ethanol, but should not drink it, or should pay
> taxes on it.  Sure.
>
> With the levels of corruption existing, no one can realistically think
> this will work.  I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

We'll discuss corruption separately.

>> Another possibility seems to be a hybrid system using solar power for
>> half the year, and microhydro in the cloudy/rainy season. Well, we
>> must run the numbers and find out.
>
> Well, double expense to begin with.

That is a false assumption. Solar requires imported solar cells, but
micro-hydro rigs can be built from local materials plus a used
alternator. It costs more to do both, certainly, but you don't know
how much more. That is what I intend to find out.

> Again, won't pay itself because
> there are no opportunities for business, because of corruption, etc...

I think I didn't explain my idea of business opportunities adequately.
But that is another thread. I refuse to believe that business is
completely impossible inside the villages.

>> I have contacts in sustainable fuels, business, and engineering, but I
>> wouldn't turn down any others that people here come up with. What
>> mailing lists, social networking sites, and other places can we ask
>> these questions on? I know that we can ask on LinkedIn.

> The list of goodwill projects that have been a waste of resources, not
> solving anything, is long and growing.  See and weep, and this is just
> ONE list.
> www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/IMG/pdf/MAE_BOLIVIE_annexes.pdf

While I understand your reason for objecting to every suggestion
(after all, it is true that nothing has worked in the past) I think
that it is unhelpful at this point in the discussion. People in the
innovation business say that the first step is to get all the
theoretically possible solutions out on the table, regardless of cost
and other apparent practicalities, and then see whether any of them
can be re-engineered to deal with the obstacles.

The Wright brothers knew all the objections to heavier-than-air flight
before they built their wind tunnel and found out what shape of wings
would work, with what lift and drag. They were then able to calculate
the power-to-weight ratio needed for their engine, and ask
manufacturers to design one to fit their specifications. It doesn't
matter how many manufacturers said no, because they only needed one to
say yes. That's how we have to think, and that's how we have to act.
It still took 30 years from their first flight to regular passenger
service, but a lot of other uses for airplanes appeared in the
meantime. We are not looking for the architecture and funding plan for
complete Peruvian rural electrification. We only need 5-10 watts per
pupil, not all the time.

We are going to winnow the possibilities, but let us first see what is
technically possible, then what is financially possible, then what is
practical under the given conditions. I want to start with the list on
the Battery and power page on the Wiki, and create the analysis for
each possibility. Let us distinguish the possibilities for the
potato-growing regions, up to 2500 m or so, and the pastoral societies
above that level, up to 5000 m. I claim that the following are
technically feasible in the high mountains of Perú, given the five
months or so of heavy cloud cover (with how much rain?) and drought
the rest of the year.

* Solar, for about half the year
* Microhydro, for about half the year. More if we can figure out how
to create reservoirs.
* Ethanol up to 2500 m or so (where the potatoes grow) or higher if
the herdspeople can trade meat or wool for potatoes or ethanol with
communities lower down the mountains
* Other biofuels
* Wood Gas Generator
* Child Powered Play Charger
* Other human power, including bicycles
* Animal power (I haven't heard of this with sheep or llamas, but it
certainly works with dogs, cows, water buffalo, and camels.)
* Wind power

Which of these can be made entirely from locally available materials,
including alternators from junked cars? I'll ask Engineers Without
Borders and Practical Action (the Schumacher appropriate technology
people), among others. MIT contacts, please.

Javier, please find out what used alternators go for from junkyards in
Perú. Here is one other data point. "The cost of a Delco CS-130
alternator at any US junkyard should be $10.00 to $15.00 US."
http://bernardembden.com/xjs/altmove/index.htm

When I ask you whether it is better to curse the darkness or to teach
people to make candles, I don't want to hear you grumbling about the
lack of candle-making materials. If we don't have candlewax, we will
make oil lamps or coal fires or something. I just want a direct answer
to the question. Are you in or out? Are you ready to work toward
solutions, or not? OK?
-- 
Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay