[Colombia] Correos desde [Sugar IAEP] Teaching with computers / Enseniando con Computadoras]

[Rafael Ortiz]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas <
paul at kristianpaul.org> wrote:

> Reenvio un correo que merece una lectura , parte del hilo
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2011-November/014482.html,
> generado por (opinion personal) la necesidad de comparar apple con sugar.
>
> Saludos
>
> Cristian Paul
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Alan Kay -----
>
> Hi Carlos
>
> I don't have answers to your form of the questions -- and educational
> situations are always much larger than any kind of technology (even when
> technology has a lot of symbolic and motivational value).
>
> These issues have some parallels with "what if it were a music problem?".
> We are not going to solve it simply by giving every child a $100 musical
> instrument plus a book about how to play it. However: we are human beings,
> we have music in us, and a nice musical instrument can be very
> motivational, even when we don't strictly need it to get better in music
> (we can learn how to sing because we have our own instruments right inside
> of us). We can make many instruments, etc.
>
>
> And we would certainly be silly to try to measure "musical progress" based
> on the children having instruments for a short period.
>
> But we would be smart to find ways to deal with the fact that some
> teachers and parents will know enough about music to help, and most might
> not. What would a large scale smart strategy be to take advantage of the
> new interest in music? (If we wait too long, children and teachers and
> parents might decide that wonderful instruments like the violin might not
> be learnable or even musical -- and that would be a shame and a disaster.)
>
> Or: those who are less familiar with music might decide that learning
> scales is the thing to do -- and it can be measured to assess progress! But
> this is confusing a sub-goal with a goal. The goal is to express ideas and
> emotions through music. That is the threshold that has to be aimed for and
> achieved.
>
> It is likely that those who understand this threshold will have to do a
> lot of traveling around to help the classroom teachers with this threshold.
> They will have to help train teachers and parents. They will have to write
> about this for the teachers and parents.
>
> They will have to make a "musical environment" in which the three main
> intertwined processes of learning to play are alive and well:
>     (a) private time with someone who knows how to play
>     (b) public time with others who are learning to play
>     (c) lots of practicing in (a), (b) and by oneself.
>
> For (a) one or two hours a week makes an enormous difference -- and this
> is the hardest to get a society to set up. (b) is a kind of payoff, but
> most schools think wrongly that it is the main process. And when (c) starts
> working, the whole process will really start working.
>
> Back to the "computer instrument". It is more like a musical instrument
> than it needs to be (for example, it can also be the instruction books --
> and not too far in the future, it can also act the part of an "expert
> helper" in some areas). These have to be looked forward to and made to
> happen.
>
>
> But for right now, the key is the "musical knowledge" and sense of
> thresholds in the teachers and parents. When this is lacking, the society
> has to find ways to have those with the knowledge touch and transfer as
> much as possible to children, teachers and parents.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Carlos Rabassa <carnen at mac.com>
> >To: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes <
> olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org>; argentina at lists.laptop.org; Lista de correo
> del equipo Somos-Azúcar <somosazucar at lists.sugarlabs.org>; olpc bolivia <
> olpc-bolivia at lists.laptop.org>; IAEP SugarLabs <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>;
> OLPC Puno <olpcpuno at gmail.com>
> >Cc: David Van Assche <dvanassche at gmail.com>; Alan Kay <
> alan.nemo at yahoo.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:45 AM
> >Subject: Re: [IAEP] Teaching with computers / Enseniando con Computadoras
> >
> >
> >Spanish translation will follow as soon as I have a chance to prepare it
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >David, Alan,
> >
> >
> >Thanks.  These two short messages,  clearly explain the problem about
> which we worry so much.
> >
> >
> >We couldn´t have asked for more authorized opinions.
> >
> >
> >The full development of free software,  until it reaches the stage in
> which most users can use it without problems,  takes lots of time.
> >
> >
> >In my modest opinion,  we have in Uruguay a fantastic opportunity that
> will not last forever.
> >
> >
> >The people and the government are still quite enthusiastic about Plan
> Ceibal.
> >
> >
> >This enthusiasm needs a constant flow of good news in terms of results,
>  to stay alive and strong.
> >
> >
> >All that has been invested to date,  all the good results we have already
> seen and are seeing every day,  are too much to risk losing.
> >
> >
> >So the question is
> >
> >
> >¿Are we willing to take that risk waiting for Sugar or should we propose
> alternative solutions to the authorities?
> >
> >
> >¿What is more important,  free software or the education of the children
> who are attending school today?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Carlos Rabassa
> >Volunteer
> >Plan Ceibal Support Network
> >Montevideo, Uruguay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Nov 19, 2011, at 1:08 PM, Alan Kay wrote:
> >
> >Hi David
> >>
> >>
> >>I think you make a valid point about open source software. The problem
> is that the end-users in this case have not bought into this dynamic --
> and, given the real goals and the small windows of opportunity available,
> the open source dynamic is not just moot here, but is a real problem.
> >>
> >>
> >>I think what we all have quite a bit of difficulty with is doing
> *packaging* that is up to the level needed by the end users. This is a
> separate skill set (and set of talents).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Just speaking for Viewpoints (but I think this applies to most of us) we
> are just much better at thinking of "potentially good features" and in
> implementing these up to some level of usability -- but *we* certainly fall
> short of what I would call real packaging. I was a champion of Hypercard at
> Apple and helped get it to be approved as a product ... and then was quite
> sobered, even shocked, by the amount of work -- hundreds of additional
> person-years -- that Apple put into turning something I thought was great
> for users, into something that *was* actually great for users. And it
> wasn't just the person-hours, but "the check-list" and vetting that was the
> key.
> >>
> >>
> >>Very best wishes,
> >>
> >>
> >>Alan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>________________________________
> >>> From: David Van Assche <dvanassche at gmail.com>
> >>>To: Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> >>>Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes <
> olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org>; Carlos Rabassa <carnen at mac.com>;
> argentina at lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia <olpc-bolivia at lists.laptop.org>;
> Lista de correo del equipo Somos-Azúcar <somosazucar at lists.sugarlabs.org>;
> IAEP SugarLabs <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>; OLPC Puno <olpcpuno at gmail.com>
> >>>Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:20 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [IAEP] Teaching with computers / Enseniando con
> Computadoras
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Also, what makes apple great to most people is their hardware not their
> software, their latest OS both on touchpads and laptops is horribly buggy,
> and feels more like beta software than even windows 7...
> >>>
> >>>Sugar isn't perfect, but its far far less bloated than any other option
> available, and that makes it comfortable to code for, fun to use, and
> hopefully easier to teach with. If only there were more marketing, more
> money, more coders, etc,etc...
> >>>
> >>>That's the deal with all open source software though... eventually it
> seems, if one holds on long enough, all those things do come... look at
> mozilla, apache, mysql, or suse... either individuals or very big companies
> come in and help out... why should it be any different with Sugar?
> >>>
> >>>David Van Assche
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> _______________________________________________
> Colombia mailing list
> Colombia at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/colombia
>

Gracias Cristian interesante. :)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/colombia/attachments/20111120/79110153/attachment-0001.html>